[biker1]

Seems like a valid question considering your responses.

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Lovely. Resort to that.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by biker1

Seems like a valid question considering your responses.

But the big question is................who gets to reply to that question without a snippy response back.

[biker1]

I don't really care. I would like to hear a response back from my original post (from the author of the post I responded to).

Originally Posted by dewilson58

But the big question is................who gets to reply to that question without a snippy response back.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by biker1

I don't really care. I would like to hear a response back from my original post (from the author of the post I responded to).

All of us would.

[biker1]

I think what you meant to say is half pay no federal income tax as opposed to "NO taxes whatsoever". If that is in fact true, the number is actually a bit below 50%. If you get a paycheck (as opposed to being paid under the table), you are paying FICA tax so you are paying some tax. There is also sales tax, gasoline tax, property tax (also paid indirectly through rent), perhaps state income tax, etc. The bigger issue, however, is that that statistic (assuming you meant federal income tax) is a cherry picked number provided without context. The statistics are skewed by the fact that many elderly do not have enough income to have a federal tax liability. This doesn't mean they didn't have 40+ years of paying federal income tax. The elderly are often given other tax breaks such as a reduction on property taxes. Also, many people might have a short period of time where they don't earn enough to have a federal tax liability but move up economically rather quickly. I believe many people interpret the number as representing a permanent group of people who don't ever pay federal income tax. That is really not the case as people move up and down the economic ladder so the people who are not paying federal income tax changes continually. However, I do believe it is a good idea for everyone to have a little skin in the game.

I don't see anything unconstitutional about a progressive federal tax rate. If it was, I would think it would have been challenged? I agree that there is a better way for the federal government to raise revenue. Given the lack of term limits on Congress and effective lobbying, I don't see a revolutionary change in the future.

Originally Posted by MDLNB

I agree. Half of the citizens that enjoy this great country pay NO taxes whatsoever. Time for EVERYONE to pay taxes. It seems to be UnConstitutional for the rich to pay at a higher rate than anyone else. Sounds like a case of discrimination. Either a flat tax or a federal sales tax make everyone equal.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by biker1

If you are on an obamacare plan, perhaps. If you are working and your employer provides health insurance or you are on Medicare, probably not. I am probably one of the few people around here who is actually on an obamacare plan (Florida Blue, the only provider in Sumter County). If you want to know what is wrong with it I would be happy to oblige.

I'm on FloridaBlue too, with subsidy (tax rebate) from the ACA. Other than the deductible ($3500 individual or $6000 couple, if I remember right?), it's fairly similar to what we had up north. We didn't have any deductible up there.

We have co-pays, which are higher than up north, but still affordable. We have to get pre-certified for pretty much everything here in Florida, and could see a specialist without "permission" in the north. Rx coverage was exactly the same as it was in the north, except that fewer pharmacies participate down here. I had to switch my prescription from mail-order to Walgreens, but the cost is the same for the prescriptions.

The upside to Florida Blue is - even though we are charged a very small monthly premium, they have activities you can participate in to earn credit toward those premiums. So we haven't actually had to PAY any premium since February, and we still have a couple hundred bucks in credit.

My doctor is good enough for my needs, which is mostly to make sure I'm healthy once a year, and renew my prescriptions twice a year.

[biker1]

The obamacare plan I have has a very high out of pocket maximum and a very high deductible and a high premium. You can actually have any out of pocket maximum you want if you are willing to pay a ridiculous premium. I can, however, pretty much go anywhere I want as the network is extensive. One of the biggest flaws in the obamacare plans, IMHO, is the lack of means testing. If you understand the rules, it may be easy to get a big, fat subsidy, which is exactly what I do. I restructured our investments to minimize (until I am on Medicare) capital gains and dividends from our non-qualified investments to keep our MAGI low enough for a subsidy. I would really have been fine with a much lower cost non-obamacare compliant catastrophic plan but will pay less with the obamacare plan with subsidy. They don't look at your net worth when computing the subsidy. You can have a $25M net worth and still receive a subsidy.

I also earned the premium credits. $500 for about 20 minutes of effort.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm on FloridaBlue too, with subsidy (tax rebate) from the ACA. Other than the deductible ($3500 individual or $6000 couple, if I remember right?), it's fairly similar to what we had up north. We didn't have any deductible up there.

We have co-pays, which are higher than up north, but still affordable. We have to get pre-certified for pretty much everything here in Florida, and could see a specialist without "permission" in the north. Rx coverage was exactly the same as it was in the north, except that fewer pharmacies participate down here. I had to switch my prescription from mail-order to Walgreens, but the cost is the same for the prescriptions.

The upside to Florida Blue is - even though we are charged a very small monthly premium, they have activities you can participate in to earn credit toward those premiums. So we haven't actually had to PAY any premium since February, and we still have a couple hundred bucks in credit.

My doctor is good enough for my needs, which is mostly to make sure I'm healthy once a year, and renew my prescriptions twice a year.

[skyking]

Originally Posted by biker1

Please explain how private insurance is "a lot better" than Medicare. I have private insurance and my wife is on Medicare. We can, and do, see the same Drs. The only difference I have detected is she pays less.

Medicare has only one benefit plan. Private insurers offer many different benefit plans some of which are greater than Medicare.
If you are over 65 and Medicare eligible, virtually all Medicare Advantage plans offered by private carriers exceed traditional Medicare benefits.

[biker1]

I don't believe you can make the case that all Medicare Advantage Plans exceed Medicare plus all Supplemental Plan possibilities. That is the comparison you need to make; not Medicare alone vs. Medicare Advantage.

Originally Posted by skyking

Medicare has only one benefit plan. Private insurers offer many different benefit plans some of which are greater than Medicare.
If you are over 65 and Medicare eligible, virtually all Medicare Advantage plans offered by private carriers exceed traditional Medicare benefits.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Socialized medicine is fine unless you have an extremely serious disease or one that is not in need of specialized health care providers.

Many people can coast when they are younger because of their good health and promote socialized medicine, but when the rubber hits the road, you need more and better than what socialized medicine gives most people. AND the cost and the wastage are far worse than the cost and wastage in our current American systems. People have to wait and their income tax (Austria for example) is close to 50% for all wage earners.

Medicare is a form of socialized medicine. You don't get less health care just because you worked a lower-paying job all your life than some wealthy person worked. And that wealthy person doesn't automatically get more just because he paid more into the system. If he wants more, he has to pay EXTRA, on top of what he already paid in. Just like you do.

You all get an equal minimum basic health coverage. The wealthy person might be able to pay for additional coverage that you can't afford, but you both get to start out on equal footing. That is what socialized medicine IS.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by biker1

The obamacare plan I have has a very high out of pocket maximum and a very high deductible and a high premium. You can actually have any out of pocket maximum you want if you are willing to pay a ridiculous premium. I can, however, pretty much go anywhere I want as the network is extensive. One of the biggest flaws in the obamacare plans, IMHO, is the lack of means testing. If you understand the rules, it may be easy to get a big, fat subsidy, which is exactly what I do. I restructured our investments to minimize (until I am on Medicare) capital gains and dividends from our non-qualified investments to keep our MAGI low enough for a subsidy. I would really have been fine with a much lower cost non-obamacare compliant catastrophic plan but will pay less with the obamacare plan with subsidy. They don't look at your net worth when computing the subsidy. You can have a $25M net worth and still receive a subsidy.

I also earned the premium credits. $500 for about 20 minutes of effort.

We have the exact opposite situation. Neither of us are old enough for medicare. We have a very (very) modest savings account, and enough paid up life insurance to cover burial costs and a nice memorial service with brunch for our friends and family.

Hubby was forced into retirement. I've worked part-time retail (near-minimum wage) for most of the last 40-something years, so our combined income once his department was closed down was minimal.

In Connecticut, that meant we qualified for medicaid, because Connecticut participates in the Medicaid expansion of the ACA. Florida does not.

That meant, I had to go back to work when we moved south, because we are required to earn a MINIMUM income in order to qualify for ACA subsidies. If I didn't return to work, our premium would be $2000 per month. It's currently $50/month, but that $500 for the 20 minutes of work pays for it. And in January we'll hopefully be able to get another $500 credit.

This coming April, we'll have hubby's pension PLUS his social security, and I will actually have to quit my job to continue qualifying for ACA subsidies - because we don't have our money tied up in investments, so we can't write anything off or discount anything against our income.

[chet2020]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Medicare is a form of socialized medicine. You don't get less health care just because you worked a lower-paying job all your life than some wealthy person worked. And that wealthy person doesn't automatically get more just because he paid more into the system. If he wants more, he has to pay EXTRA, on top of what he already paid in. Just like you do.

You all get an equal minimum basic health coverage. The wealthy person might be able to pay for additional coverage that you can't afford, but you both get to start out on equal footing. That is what socialized medicine IS.

This is basically how the system works in England, except expand it out to everyone regardless of age. I play soccer and know several Brits. They disagree on everything political, but they all agree they like their National Health Service (their socialist national healthcare system). One guy needed a hernia operation. If he waited two weeks, it was free. If he paid the equivalent of $1,800, he could have the operation in two days. He opted to wait. He had the same surgeon either way.

Some hard-core people might object that people with money who are willing to pay get faster service, but to me it seems like a reasonable compromise.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by chet2020

This is basically how the system works in England, except expand it out to everyone regardless of age. I play soccer and know several Brits. They disagree on everything political, but they all agree they like their National Health Service (their socialist national healthcare system). One guy needed a hernia operation. If he waited two weeks, it was free. If he paid the equivalent of $1,800, he could have the operation in two days. He opted to wait. He had the same surgeon either way.

Some hard-core people might object that people with money who are willing to pay get faster service, but to me it seems like a reasonable compromise.

Unless you have or a family member has need for an unusual procedure due to a complicated diagnosis. Also, we have the finest doctor's moving to the U.S. because of it's stellar medical system based on private enterprise. None of this matters if you go through life with the usual ailments, but matters a lot if you need expert medical assistance.

[skyking]

Originally Posted by chet2020

This is basically how the system works in England, except expand it out to everyone regardless of age. I play soccer and know several Brits. They disagree on everything political, but they all agree they like their National Health Service (their socialist national healthcare system). One guy needed a hernia operation. If he waited two weeks, it was free. If he paid the equivalent of $1,800, he could have the operation in two days. He opted to wait. He had the same surgeon either way.

Some hard-core people might object that people with money who are willing to pay get faster service, but to me it seems like a reasonable compromise.

How long would you have to wait if you are 78 years old, have a very painful hip and are told you need a hip replacement?

Answer: Years

[skyking]

Originally Posted by biker1

I don't believe you can make the case that all Medicare Advantage Plans exceed Medicare plus all Supplemental Plan possibilities. That is the comparison you need to make; not Medicare alone vs. Medicare Advantage.

Many Medicare Advantage plans are offered in this area for $0 premiums. Some even give you back bonuses such as $50 per month in over the counter pharmacy items.

Your original point was that Medicare is less expensive than private plans. That simply is not true.