[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

After four decades and $200 billion, the US missile defense system is no match for a Russian nuclear attack - The Boston Globe

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

Someone hasn’t been keeping up with what is happening. I have a feeling there are many more out there with the same status: uninformed as to current events. Can’t say I blame people for turning off the news.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Major Battles in World History - How They Affected our World | Wondrium

The facts will eventually get to powerful Russians. I hope they see that Putin cannot win without causing a much larger war in the process.

I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.

If only the world was dealing with a rational person and not an evil old man with nothing to lose, those thoughts would hold water.

Putin will use the nuclear threat now to get anything he wants, there is no squeezing him. If it becomes unmanageable for him in any fashion, his finger is on the button.

[blueash]

Aces4

I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons.

MartinSE
Sorry, you are completely wrong on that post. I am not sure where you get that, but we both have the ability to completely destroy each other.

Originally Posted by manaboutown

After four decades and $200 billion, the US missile defense system is no match for a Russian nuclear attack - The Boston Globe

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE


The Russian capability is HERE

And a summary of the data is HERE

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by blueash

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE


The Russian capability is HERE

And a summary of the data is HERE

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD

So how many “retired” warheads does America have for backup? Russia is well prepared for nuclear attack and has also exercised and conducted ongoing training in that area. One may want perform an online search for a Bloomberg opinion article as to why the US currently isn’t ready for nuclear rivalry with Russia or with China.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by blueash

Review the above. Aces4 writes we are way behind Russia in nukes.
Martin says Aces4 is wrong
aboutown links to a story to apparently prove Martin is wrong and Aces is correct.

But the link is a story about how useless the Reagan idea of a missile DEFENSE shield has proven to be. After 200 billion dollars we cannot protect ourselves from a Russian nuclear attack. Thus the Russians can still kill us.

Can we still kill them? Many times over.
If you really care to read:
The US nuclear capability is HERE


The Russian capability is HERE

And a summary of the data is HERE

"Current nuclear weapons inventories
The latest assessment of Russian nuclear military capability estimates that as of early 2022 Russia has a stockpile of approximately 4,477 nuclear warheads — nearly 6,000 if “retired” warheads are included. The US maintains a similar inventory of 5,500 warheads, with 3,800 of those rapidly deployable."

TL: DR
Russia is not ahead, nor behind in nuclear weapons. Years of treaties and verification have kept a nuclear balance in the face of mutually assured destruction. MAD

Thanks, I didn't see any point in just going round and round. People believe what they want to believe, and like often will conflate one story with anything similar.

Yes, the anti-ballistic missile system was a complete waste of money. But, that was ONE thing, not our entire system. Oh well.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

So how many “retired” warheads does America have for backup? Russia is well prepared for nuclear attack and has also exercised and conducted ongoing training in that area. One may want perform an online search for a Bloomberg opinion article as to why the US currently isn’t ready for nuclear rivalry with Russia or with China.

Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one.

Have anything official documenting your comments?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I think that it is about 50/50 that Putin gets overthrown. A lot depends on how long the Ukrainians can prolong the conflict. The Ukrainians can win in the active part of the conflict or they can win a war of attrition and guerilla action that could go on long-term after a stalemate. The Russian "best and brightest" have left or are leaving the country. Putin may run out of money to continue the war and he probably will find it hard to get loans. Europe is united and becoming more aggressive and losing their passivity - they have to fear Putin and face the facts that only force has stopped Dictators in the past. Historically, appeasement and treaties (ask the Ukraine) never stop a Dictator. Only imminent capture stopped Hitler.
.....All Democracies have a vested interest in Putin losing this war. If he should win, then Taiwan likely falls to China. Small country Dictators think that Democracy is weak and they start to take, take, and take. Putin next takes Estonia or Rumania. The US is caught up in this tragedy and it is lucky that they still have Europe as a friend. US citizens will have to accept some price increases on goods and gasoline. Peace has dividends and wars have costs - usually suffered most by the average citizen.
........The Ukraine was supposedly a beautiful country that had great mineral resources and fertile farmland. They are being bombed back into the middle ages.......their big sin - choosing western freedom over Russian Dictatorship. I hope that Americans remember the Ukrainian example.

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.

Not if they have a choice in the matter. I would expect many of the nuclear strike attack plans in place target the military leaders of Russia.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Linking to an opinion piece doesn't make it so. And you seem to be very knowledgeable of just what Russia has and just what we have - strange when I was in the Marines making comments in public like that would have prompted a visit from the FBI. I wonder where you got your FACTS, I know you liked to an opinion, but you know what they say about opinions - everyone has one.

Have anything official documenting your comments?

Seriously? It’s a crime to listen to news reports, reading news items and listening to reports from government officials who are interviewed? It’s now a crime to form an opinion regarding information provided to the public? That doesn’t sound like the America of which I am a citizen. That sounds more like Russian control of it’s citizenry. Geezzz

I suppose I just made up the fact that Russia has approached China for weaponry and financing now. Sorry if this all interrupts one’s head-in-the-sand moments.

[Taltarzac725]

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?

Stalin was a murderous dictator but he would be very upset with Putin for starting a war he has no real way of winning short of sparking a nuclear war and no one knows how that would end. Maybe whoever winds up with the most surviving nuclear submarines and even those would have to come up for air and provisions.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Stalin killed millions. A Stanford historian answers the question, was it genocide?

Stalin was a murderous dictator but he would be very upset with Putin for starting a war he has no real way of winning short of sparking a nuclear war and no one knows how that would end. Maybe whoever winds up with the most surviving nuclear submarines and even those would have to come up for air and provisions.

My greatest concern is the state of Putin's health, primarily his mental health. Rumors have it that he has neurological and possibly some other health issues. That could make him very dangerous IMHO. He is unpredictable may be becoming increasingly irrational. At some point he may push or try to push the nuclear button. As you suggested his invasion seems unwinnable. I do not think anyone has an answer.

I found an interesting article about how Russians are possibly feeling. Of course they cannot really speak out fully. What it'''s like inside Moscow amid Ukraine war: Reporter'''s Notebook | Fox News

[Worldseries27]

More than likely putin is already looking for an out. So are the sycophants that surround him which makes it very dangerous for him. All the war game scenarios are being dusted off and decapitation strikes are certainly being discussed.
In the end all the radioactivity spreads to the atmosphere and spreads all over the earth killing possibly all life.
1959 movie " on the beach" with gregory peck scenario.

[Geodyssey]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Napoleon's Waterloo & Hitler's Barbarossa: 5 lessons Putin can learn from failed war campaigns, World News | wionews.com

The old saying those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it fits here.

I would bet Stalin and his various generals are livid while watching from wherever what Vladimir Putin is doing.

Yet Russia is winning.