[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

No one ever talks about animal instinct when it comes to these matters, but I believe it plays into them and often is the reason for the emotion and the rejection and even the feelings sometimes of abhorrence...which is really too strong a word and will cause criticism. Most of us are wired to feel sexual attraction on some level to the opposite sex. That is how our species is preserved and that is very, very, very, strong. The opposite is often true and we may feel repugnance when the same sex presents in a way that is not feeling or acting like our instincts feel or act or respond. Sometimes these things have a great deal less to do with our brains than they do with our hormones and our deeply wired instincts. I think this is truer with males and I don't know why. I have never thought, felt or reacted like a male. I think that if a woman approached me sexually I would have negative feelings toward her. That also would have something to do with other issues that have been taught as well in our lives and our experiences. It would not FEEL comfortable.

Gracie, this has *nothing* to do with sexual attraction.

This isn't about being gay, lesbian, bisexual. Zilch.

It has to do with gender identity. Being comfortable in your own skin, in your own body. There are transgender women who are lesbians, and transgender women who are hetero. There are also transgender women who are asexual - meaning, they aren't interested in sex at all, with anyone. They are women, because their emotions, thought-processes, mentality, how they perceive themselves, is that of a female not a male. Their biology doesn't match EVERYTHING ELSE about them. And so rather than change WHO they are inside, to match WHAT they are outside, they change the WHAT so they can remain the WHO.

It's very strange to me, and it makes me uncomfortable to consider that anyone would be that way, or have surgery to change their biology. But I'm not their judge, it's not my place to tell them they're wrong. They know how they feel, and they're the ones who have to live in their skin. Just like some folks get botox and belly tucks and face-lifts and brazillian butt-lifts and cheek implants and dentures when they get older because they want to deny or defy aging and look as young as they feel.

Some people do the same thing with their sexual organs to match how they feel.

It's weird to me, but I accept it.

Sad that so many people are horrified by the concept that they can't accept that someone ELSE needs to present themselves in the way they feel, just because it doesn't fit with what THEY think that person should be. It's not up to anyone else to determine whether John needs to be Jane. It's up to John.

[JP]

People can do whatever they want to their bodies but that doesn't mean they can then compete in a sport that is not their true biologic gender. It's crazy and unfair to the "real" women. Hmmm...I wonder why you don't see women that are transformed into men competing in male sports. The answer is obvious. Any other argument is ridiculous.

[bobdeb]

IMO, there is nothing unusual or wrong with 'coed' softball teams in TV.

What is wrong is a transgender knocking off a woman from a team in a women's league. Otherwise, I have zero issue playing ball with a woman or anyone who identifies as a woman or a man.

And I play softball in both TV and outside of TV. Everyone is welcomed. Besides, most men have little or no issue playing ball with a woman.

The league I play in outside of TV is coed and there are a number of very talented women who play. A number of them better athletes than some of the men. We're talking former college softball players at times.

Great league.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by JP

People can do whatever they want to their bodies but that doesn't mean they can then compete in a sport that is not their true biologic gender. It's crazy and unfair to the "real" women. Hmmm...I wonder why you don't see women that are transformed into men competing in male sports. The answer is obvious. Any other argument is ridiculous.

As you wrote, the answer is obvious: you don't see trans men competing in male sports because you haven't looked.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The hormones are the deal-breaker. In order for a biological female to transform to a surgical male, she has to get hormones. That's what gives her facial hair, certain muscle definition that women don't have, the cessation of menstrual cycles and all the mood swings that go with them.

You're basically telling them that they have to continue to suppress and pretend that they are what their genitalia are forcing them to be. That's not a solution. That's where we are now.

Of course, there is an answer. Have sports leagues for transgenders too. If they are allowed to compete in female sports, due to the male biology they should not be able to set records or take prizes/ scholarships. For that they would be required to compete against their own biological gender. That old adage, you can’t have your cake and eat it too applies here.

[bobdeb]

Yes, it was initially about LPGA golf, but this post has evolved.

I am not aware of any gender specific softball leagues in TV. Neighborhood softball on Saturdays is often coed.

TV 'men's' leagues are comprised of Divisions with teams within. There are a finite number of players on each team. Typically 12.
Managers traft players based on criteria such as ability and statistics. Other factors of a personal nature come into play. Such as friends, golf or poker buddies. Whatever.

The result is that not everyone who signs up gets on a team. They can substitute or elect to move down to a lower division that must accept them, for one season only.

It can be a cold experience for some players to be 'rejected'.

Point being does a physically gifted transgender qualify to knock of a woman in a 'women's' league? I'm sure it's all kumbaya until someone gets booted off.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by JP

People can do whatever they want to their bodies but that doesn't mean they can then compete in a sport that is not their true biologic gender. It's crazy and unfair to the "real" women. Hmmm...I wonder why you don't see women that are transformed into men competing in male sports. The answer is obvious. Any other argument is ridiculous.

I’ve got answer, because transgender women to men cannot walk away with the prizes/records. Transgender men to women know how lucrative this can be for them. It needs to stop now and former biological women’s records reinstated.

[bobdeb]

Neighborhood or Saturday softball is open to everyone. Large rosters.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by bobdeb

Neighborhood or Saturday softball is open to everyone. Large rosters.

CoEd is not the same as gender specific sports. Why is that so hard to understand?

And for the one that insists that it is up to how a person "feels" that is only an opinion. Genders are not dictated solely by equipment. It is definitely not dictated on a whim or suggestion of what a person "feels" like in a given year. A person's chromosomes, bone structure, etc. is the REAL defining evidence of gender. Not what someone "feels" like. A person grows hair on his face and tells everyone that he is a dog. Does that make him a dog?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by bobdeb

Yes, it was initially about LPGA golf, but this post has evolved.

I am not aware of any gender specific softball leagues in TV. Neighborhood softball on Saturdays is often coed.

TV 'men's' leagues are comprised of Divisions with teams within. There are a finite number of players on each team. Typically 12.
Managers traft players based on criteria such as ability and statistics. Other factors of a personal nature come into play. Such as friends, golf or poker buddies. Whatever.

The result is that not everyone who signs up gets on a team. They can substitute or elect to move down to a lower division that must accept them, for one season only.

It can be a cold experience for some players to be 'rejected'.

Point being does a physically gifted transgender qualify to knock of a woman in a 'women's' league? I'm sure it's all kumbaya until someone gets booted off.

There may be ramifications with the local baseball leagues but think of the larger landscape which includes titles, record setting, scholarships, Olympic berths for women. Individual rights end when they infringe on other’s rights. Biological women who are heterosexual have no choice to compete with any one other than females. Transgenders have a choice.

[Two Bills]

Q....Why do we build snowmen, and not snow-women?

A....Snowballs!

[bobdeb]

Originally Posted by Byte1

CoEd is not the same as gender specific sports. Why is that so hard to understand?

And for the one that insists that it is up to how a person "feels" that is only an opinion. Genders are not dictated solely by equipment. It is definitely not dictated on a whim or suggestion of what a person "feels" like in a given year. A person's chromosomes, bone structure, etc. is the REAL defining evidence of gender. Not what someone "feels" like. A person grows hair on his face and tells everyone that he is a dog. Does that make him a dog?

Perhaps we're not all as enlightened as others posting here...

[mike234]

Hailey went and had the sex change. had them removed. I give her credit for courage. bruce Jenner, that cross dresser, wouldn't have the guts to do that, as well as a few million other crossdressers.....bruce Jenner is part of the khardsashian tribe, which the media keeps ramming down our throats....all they want is for people to "look at me"

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by mike234

Hailey went and had the sex change. had them removed. I give her credit for courage. bruce Jenner, that cross dresser, wouldn't have the guts to do that, as well as a few million other crossdressers.....bruce Jenner is part of the khardsashian tribe, which the media keeps ramming down our throats....all they want is for people to "look at me"

I believe Bruce DID have the operation, but I may be mistaken. Can you imagine a Triathlete like him competing in women's sports? I mean if he would have come out when he was younger and fitter.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

As you wrote, the answer is obvious: you don't see trans men competing in male sports because you haven't looked.

Could you please cite some... Or even one...