[bobdeb]

So, it's really not a transgender issue in so much as a 'fairness' issue?

That meaning, a woman transgendering to a male competing against men in athletics or sports is not an issue as they are not predisposed with a physical advantage.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by bobdeb

So, it's really not a transgender issue in so much as a 'fairness' issue?

That meaning, a woman transgendering to a male competing against men in athletics or sports is not an issue as they are not predisposed with a physical advantage.

Pretty much this. If the ability of 10 women cap out at 9, and the ability of 10 men cap out at 10, and the ability of a transgender male-to-female caps out at the same 10 that they did when they were male, then it would be an unfair advantage for those transgenders to be on the womens' teams.

I actually agree with that conclusion. I just disagree with the stigma and vitriol and fear of "other" I read here on this forum from people who pretend to be a) christians and b) residents of America's Friendliest Hometown.

[DeanFL]

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To "integrate/allow" Transgenders into Women sports - I believe that's the core question.

In my mind, this matter is simple. It comes down to FAIRNESS.

Is the decision FAIR to the Transgenders, or is it FAIR to the women?

I really do not see it any other way.

If the 'FAIR to Trans' integrates into girl/women sports - that group who supports primarily Trans will call it FAIR.

And If the 'FAIR to Women' does NOT allow the integration of Trans into their sports - THAT group supporting seperation will call THAT fair.

I'm not against "trans", but IMO there should be limitations. One of these must be NOT integrating into women sports. IMO that's FAIR.
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[Aces4]

Originally Posted by bobdeb

So, it's really not a transgender issue in so much as a 'fairness' issue?

That meaning, a woman transgendering to a male competing against men in athletics or sports is not an issue as they are not predisposed with a physical advantage.

Not a fairness issue at all, it’s an equality issue. Female sports are for female competitors, not for men opting to act out as females. A transgender athelete, formerly Bruce Jenner, has stated he was against this type of competition. This straight from someone who knows the situation and the male gender capabilities.

If you want equality, admit transgender males to male sports and allow them their adopted persona.

[shut the front door]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Does this person still have a ***** and testicles?

Yes. The complete package is there and allowed to play women's softball in The Villages because the rec dept said that women's softball has to let him play.
Let that sink in. The slippery slope has hit home and The Villages is not going to do anything to stop it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by shut the front door

Yes. The complete package is there and allowed to play women's softball in The Villages because the rec dept said that women's softball has to let him play.
Let that sink in. The slippery slope has hit home and The Villages is not going to do anything to stop it.

What do the women in the league think about this?

Also, if a rule is "fair" to one set of people, and "unfair" to the other set of people, then it's an unfair rule.

Perhaps a transgender female-to-male league, and a transgender male-to-female league, would make things more fair. Otherwise, you're leaving out a previously-silent, but ever-present demography.

Maybe you shouldn't include them on the mens' or womens' teams. In fact, I don't think you should. But I also think there needs to be a solution that involves including them in sports, in some way.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

What do the women in the league think about this?


Perhaps a transgender female-to-male league, and a transgender male-to-female league, would make things more fair. Otherwise, you're leaving out a previously-silent, but ever-present demography.

Right........the "have's' and the "have not's"

I'd be willing to bet you couldn't pull two transgender teams together here

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by stanley

Right........the "have's' and the "have not's"

I'd be willing to bet you couldn't pull two transgender teams together here

This thread was about a golfer who is aiming for the LPGA. It's not about teams for the Villages.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

What do the women in the league think about this?

Also, if a rule is "fair" to one set of people, and "unfair" to the other set of people, then it's an unfair rule.

Perhaps a transgender female-to-male league, and a transgender male-to-female league, would make things more fair. Otherwise, you're leaving out a previously-silent, but ever-present demography.

Maybe you shouldn't include them on the mens' or womens' teams. In fact, I don't think you should. But I also think there needs to be a solution that involves including them in sports, in some way.

It’s so simple to solve it makes me smile. Biological females and males play on team which represents their biological sex. No performance enhancing hormones or raids allowed. They may wear whatever type uniform style they choose, feminine or masculine and present the face makeup, hair they choose also.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

What do the women in the league think about this?

Also, if a rule is "fair" to one set of people, and "unfair" to the other set of people, then it's an unfair rule.

Perhaps a transgender female-to-male league, and a transgender male-to-female league, would make things more fair. Otherwise, you're leaving out a previously-silent, but ever-present demography.

Maybe you shouldn't include them on the mens' or womens' teams. In fact, I don't think you should. But I also think there needs to be a solution that involves including them in sports, in some way.

Who is going to sponsor or pay for these mythical leagues? How will they pay for themselves?

If it wasn't for the NBA subsidizing most of the WNBA, it wouldn't exist... They can't even draw flies to their games...

The WNBA players complain that they don't get paid as much as their male counterparts...

Why should they? The don't generate anywhere near the revenue...

Same with the LPGA...

Same with women's soccer...

The only pro sport that does is women's tennis, and they get the same prize money as men...

[DeanFL]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

What do the women in the league think about this?

Also, if a rule is "fair" to one set of people, and "unfair" to the other set of people, then it's an unfair rule.

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I'm on my second cup of coffee, good night's sleep, brain in gear. But even after trying to understand this comment after reading it 4 times - still makes NO SENSE!
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[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Pretty much this. If the ability of 10 women cap out at 9, and the ability of 10 men cap out at 10, and the ability of a transgender male-to-female caps out at the same 10 that they did when they were male, then it would be an unfair advantage for those transgenders to be on the womens' teams.

I actually agree with that conclusion. I just disagree with the stigma and vitriol and fear of "other" I read here on this forum from people who pretend to be a) christians and b) residents of America's Friendliest Hometown.

No one ever talks about animal instinct when it comes to these matters, but I believe it plays into them and often is the reason for the emotion and the rejection and even the feelings sometimes of abhorrence...which is really too strong a word and will cause criticism. Most of us are wired to feel sexual attraction on some level to the opposite sex. That is how our species is preserved and that is very, very, very, strong. The opposite is often true and we may feel repugnance when the same sex presents in a way that is not feeling or acting like our instincts feel or act or respond. Sometimes these things have a great deal less to do with our brains than they do with our hormones and our deeply wired instincts. I think this is truer with males and I don't know why. I have never thought, felt or reacted like a male. I think that if a woman approached me sexually I would have negative feelings toward her. That also would have something to do with other issues that have been taught as well in our lives and our experiences. It would not FEEL comfortable.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This thread was about a golfer who is aiming for the LPGA. It's not about teams for the Villages.

You quoted this;

Originally Posted by shut the front door

Yes. The complete package is there and allowed to play women's softball in The Villages because the rec dept said that women's softball has to let him play.
Let that sink in. The slippery slope has hit home and The Villages is not going to do anything to stop it.

That's why I posted this;

Originally Posted by stanley

Right........the "have's' and the "have not's"

I'd be willing to bet you couldn't pull two transgender teams together here

Some people post so much they forget what they say previously.

[mike234]

the women's golf ratings, are lower than sinkhole. if I do happen to see them on golf channel, once in a blue moon, I think I am watching the Far East golf network. lets be honest. that tour is all about sex appeal. If he/she will improve ratings, the lpga should allow him/her and bruce Jenner as color man/woman..
that tour is in big trouble.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

It’s so simple to solve it makes me smile. Biological females and males play on team which represents their biological sex. No performance enhancing hormones or raids allowed. They may wear whatever type uniform style they choose, feminine or masculine and present the face makeup, hair they choose also.

The hormones are the deal-breaker. In order for a biological female to transform to a surgical male, she has to get hormones. That's what gives her facial hair, certain muscle definition that women don't have, the cessation of menstrual cycles and all the mood swings that go with them.

You're basically telling them that they have to continue to suppress and pretend that they are what their genitalia are forcing them to be. That's not a solution. That's where we are now.