Why I will NOT be vaccinated ( and maybe you shouldn't too)

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  #31  
Old 02-17-2021, 02:59 PM
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Packer Fan, studies in South Africa indicate people who had Covid do not have immunity against their variant. And that highly contagious variant is already here in the US. People who have had Covid are reinfected with the new variant.

Last edited by Velvet; 02-17-2021 at 03:04 PM.
  #32  
Old 02-17-2021, 03:02 PM
Bjeanj Bjeanj is offline
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It doesn’t matter what one’s opinion is, they will always find research to support that position.

In any case, I don’t care whether you get a vaccine or not, and I fail to see the purpose of your post. It’s not going to change anyone’s opinion.
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  #33  
Old 02-17-2021, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean View Post
Really? I have not heard any percentage nearly that high. This is great news if it is true. Which poll did you get this number from?
I can't find it. I try very hard to quote valid sources too.

Here is one from the last two days that states that about 80% of Democratic Voters in New York State plan to get the Covid-19 vaccine;

Vaccinated
“While between 12 and 19 percent of voters from every region and party have been vaccinated, with Democrats and upstaters leading the way, there are distinct racial and income disparities in this early vaccination period,” Greenberg said. “Although 20 percent of white voters have been vaccinated, only 10 percent of Black voters and five percent of Latino voters have been. Only nine percent earning less than $50,000 have been vaccinated, compared to 14 percent who earn between $50,000 and $100,000, and 25 percent of those earning over $100,000.

“When it comes to whether or not they plan to get vaccinated, there are wide differences by party and race. While only 17 percent of Democrats and 21 percent of independents do not plan to get vaccinated, 35 percent of Republicans say they will pass on the vaccine,” Greenberg said. “Eighteen percent of white voters say no to the vaccine. However, 34 percent of Latino and 37 percent of Black voters say they don’t plan on getting vaccinated.”

I have snipped it. I will be back with the link to the article...

From this article above;
February 2021 – Siena College Research Institute


But not the source I had read that said 82% polled were favorable toward the vaccine. I am sorry I can't find it.
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Last edited by graciegirl; 02-17-2021 at 03:33 PM.
  #34  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjeanj View Post
It doesn’t matter what one’s opinion is, they will always find research to support that position.

In any case, I don’t care whether you get a vaccine or not, and I fail to see the purpose of your post. It’s not going to change anyone’s opinion.
If that was the case there would never be any progress. We would still be living like cavemen. One of the courses in my graduate studies was, “How do we know what we know?” It was a science based as compared to faith based course.

What you can do with data, is select the part of it that would support a particular outcome. This what pharmacies etc would like researchers to do for their products sometimes. But when one follows accepted statistical procedure you do actually do get a factual picture.
  #35  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:18 PM
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~~~
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I've had both vaccine shots!
  #36  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I can't find it. I try very hard to quote valid sources too.

Here is one from the last two days that states that about 80% of Democratic Voters in New York State plan to get the Covid-19 vaccine;

Vaccinated
“While between 12 and 19 percent of voters from every region and party have been vaccinated, with Democrats and upstaters leading the way, there are distinct racial and income disparities in this early vaccination period,” Greenberg said. “Although 20 percent of white voters have been vaccinated, only 10 percent of Black voters and five percent of Latino voters have been. Only nine percent earning less than $50,000 have been vaccinated, compared to 14 percent who earn between $50,000 and $100,000, and 25 percent of those earning over $100,000.

“When it comes to whether or not they plan to get vaccinated, there are wide differences by party and race. While only 17 percent of Democrats and 21 percent of independents do not plan to get vaccinated, 35 percent of Republicans say they will pass on the vaccine,” Greenberg said. “Eighteen percent of white voters say no to the vaccine. However, 34 percent of Latino and 37 percent of Black voters say they don’t plan on getting vaccinated.”

I have snipped it. I will be back with the link to the article...

From this article above;
February 2021 – Siena College Research Institute


But not the source I had read that said 82% polled were favorable toward the vaccine. I am sorry I can't find it.
Thank you for the information.
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I've had both vaccine shots!
  #37  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Packer Fan View Post
This is actually an interesting discussion. I think the OP is a little over the top, but I agree with him that if I had already had Covid, I would at least wait until everyone else had a shot for 2 reasons - the first is I have antibodies. The second one is a reason I have NEVER heard anyone mention - IF I HAD IT ONCE AND IT WAS MINOR, WHY WOULD IT NOT BE MINOR IF I GOT IT AGAIN, ESPECIALLY NOW HAVING ANTIBODIES. You see news reports of really old people getting it again, but don't you think if reinfection was a real issue, we would hear about EVERY case of it? Also, if anyone ever had a mild case, then got it again and died, it would be front page news all over the world for a week. So I think if I had it and it was very mild, I would assume logically my body doesn't have an issue with it, so why get vaccinated? However, if I had a rough case, like a few people I know, I probably would get it after everyone else has had a chance.

But I am 57 and I will be getting it. All 3 of the healthcare workers in my family, including my wife, have had both doses of either Moderna or Pfizer vaccines. My RN, BSN wife who has been a nurse for 35 years would agree with me, she has done pediatrics most of her life and seen some consequences of lack of vacinactions in the "anti vaxxer" crowd and they are not pretty. So stay the heck out of my way OP.

A few other things - the person who posted about Smallpox vaccines being stopped because they were too dangerous - I would just like to know if you ever check your facts? Seriously Smallpox was eradicated because it was such a horrible disease everyone got vaccinated and it disappeared.

I had to laugh at Graciegirl implying in one post that this virus that kills about 1/2% of people who get it (this is the number that seems to be correct, my source is the statisticians at JP morgan) is going to eventually mutate and only leave trees and horses on the planet. Wow- a litte over the top.

Thalidamide is a drug, not a vaccine and that was 60 years ago before we had all the rules for testing (and the reason for some of them) we do now. This is why we had to do a 60,000 person trial... seriously people. the whole - "they developed it too fast" argument reminds me of the "villages builds houses to fast" argument. Well, Toyota builds a car in about 4 hours...
These vaccines have had over 50 million people take them. Safety is not an issue.

Lastly, to Coffeebean or whatever your name is - are you seriously BLAMING someone for getting Covid by being Careless? Well, you can cower in your house and never go out, but most of us have lives. The only way to make sure you don't get this is to have NO Contact with anyone. Blaming people for being careless is just stupid.
I did not use the word "careless". That is your word. I used the term "risky behavior". I was referring to those who are anti-maskers, those who congregate in groups with people not in their family unit, those folks who attend large crowded events with no masks or social distancing, and all sorts of other "risky behavior". I have yet to hold up in my house. I have been out and about since the beginning of this pandemic but I have adhered to the guidelines put forth by the CDC. I have not ever engaged in risky behavior as I have seen others do. You know who you are.
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  #38  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:47 PM
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WOW!!! Crazy Question!!!!
  #39  
Old 02-17-2021, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
If that was the case there would never be any progress. We would still be living like cavemen. One of the courses in my graduate studies was, “How do we know what we know?” It was a science based as compared to faith based course.

What you can do with data, is select the part of it that would support a particular outcome. This what pharmacies etc would like researchers to do for their products sometimes. But when one follows accepted statistical procedure you do actually do get a factual picture.
Unfortunately too much of science today is faith based and depends on one’s political faith. Sabine Hossenfelder , a prominent physicist in Germany, blows the whistle in her videos on the state of present day science. Many other scientists agree with her. But with the active cancel culture today anyone who bucks the group think is ostracized. Not the best way to advance science which was to find flaws in theories so that they can be improved. Try stating to a group of Darwin ideologues that his theory is incomplete and you might be hissed off the stage. And don’t get me started on flip flop Faucci.

As for the OP, the statistics in the controlled studies can guide one on whether to get the vaccine or not. We will definitely get vaccinated for COVID 19 as we are near 80 years old, if I ever hear back from the registration websites.
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Last edited by John41; 02-17-2021 at 05:20 PM.
  #40  
Old 02-17-2021, 05:29 PM
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The second shot really got our attention and made both of us feel unwell. Daughter sent this article today;

The Second COVID-19 Shot'''s Side Effects Are Worth It - The Atlantic
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  #41  
Old 02-17-2021, 06:03 PM
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Why did everyone choose "reply with quote?" Just use "quick reply" so we don't have to re-read the OP's epistle.
  #42  
Old 02-17-2021, 07:01 PM
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Excellent article - thanks!

Hope everyone is feeling better.
  #43  
Old 02-17-2021, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
The second shot really got our attention and made both of us feel unwell. Daughter sent this article today;

The Second COVID-19 Shot'''s Side Effects Are Worth It - The Atlantic
I hope you guys are feeling better now.
  #44  
Old 02-17-2021, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DARFAP View Post
Why did everyone choose "reply with quote?" Just use "quick reply" so we don't have to re-read the OP's epistle.
Very often that is a bad idea. Problem with your idea is when you see a reply that says something like "my mother likes butter cookies while taking a covid shot" you have no idea who or what the person was replying or referring to. What I like to do is edit the long winded posts when they are like the OP here before using the quote down to the smallest amount of quoting that gets the point across. That does take some effort and many folks just don't know how to do that or want to do that. Some guy here always posts lots of pictures with almost every post he makes here which is fine ONE TIME but every reply directly to him with a quote repeats the same pictures over and over and over.
  #45  
Old 02-17-2021, 08:03 PM
G.R.I.T.S. G.R.I.T.S. is offline
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Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The COVID virus is NOT one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if I did not previously have had COVID I would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the CDC says; “Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

The WHO (World Health Organization) had this to say. “Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

Who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - WHO

“Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: “The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The NIH, CDC, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project OWS which stands for “Operation Warp Speed”. - Source/NIH’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose EPA said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the DoD who had no qualms conducting LSD experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to Agent Orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the U.S. and Europe due to harmful side effects. From 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the FDA as safe & effective were recalled. This information was obtained from the FDA’s official website.

My final concern is that the COVID vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger RNA vaccines (mRNA) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA - source/CDC

I am NOT an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. I have had the DPT, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, HBV, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have NOT already had a positive COVID test, I would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the WHO; “Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” COVID is not on a plane with Ebola, the Plague, Cholera, Malaria, or Yellow Fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately I have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on COVID have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by Tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when I see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. Human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

I am a retired RN, EMT-Paramedic with an ASN degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past American Heart Association certifications in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and served as the Chief Deputy Coroner for a county in Pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of AIDS/HIV, H1N1, MRSA & Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have I seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

I only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor Walter Brennan was often quoted from an old television show, The Guns of Will Sonnett; “No brag, just fact".

- David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired
I'm not a trained medical person but I have wavered pro and con on taking the vaccine. You're arguments are well thought out and very convincing. I'll continue to weigh information I can find. I'm not in a rush to get it for sure. A physician I see only got the shot because the state is tracking medical personnel who get/don't get the vaccine. However, she did tell me her veterinarian friends say these types of vaccines have been used on animals for years with no ill effects. She didn't say which vaccines those were. Lots to consider.
Thank you.
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