[Malsua]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Ah yes, City Journal, published by the Manhattan Institute. Manhattan Institute for Policy Research - SourceWatch

"The Manhattan Institute concerns itself with such things as 'welfare reform' (dismantling social programs), 'faith-based initiatives' (blurring the distinction between church and state), and 'education reform' (destroying public education)," Kurt Nimmo wrote October 10, 2002, in CounterPunch.[3] It was also recognised as leading the Republican/corporate efforts to destroy Ralph Nader and his supporters, in the 1990s.

When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

I cited that article because it goes over the studies and actually has links to all of them for you to read yourself.

You're invalidating 14 Random Controlled trials because you don't like who's reporting on the contents. I get it. That's called bias, you're guilty of it.

Once again, my point is this. Blue surgical masks and cloth masks to not reduce, lesson or halt the spread of respiratory viruses. _AT ALL_ The science is clear on it.

If you want to have a mask mandate and do not insist on N95 masks, you're engaging in virtue signaling and theater. What you are not doing is having any effect on the spread of the disease, so save your "but if just one child is saved" garbage. You want to save the children? Make them wear n95 masks or better, full face respirators. Those at least prevent touching face holes(mouth, nose, eyes) with covid fingers.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by The Gazette

Thank you for this comment. I did not see this inflection when I posted it to the website, and that is of course my fault as editor. I'll make this adjustment.

I appreciate your care for the wording. Copy-editing is not for the faint of heart. But it's been a hobby of mine ever since I was graduated with a Major in Print Journalism (Emerson College, 1983).

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by lkagele

New Study Finds COVID Masks Harm Children’s Physical & Mental Health | Principia Scientific Intl..

A new study, involving over 25,000 school-aged children, shows that masks are harming schoolchildren physically, psychologically, and behaviorally, revealing 24 distinct health issues associated with wearing masks.

But then again, if you get them used to being controlled at an early age, it's gets easier to control them when they're older. So, there's that.......

I like the hysteria about all the cases in schools. This is also happening in states with mask mandates for children. The real world laboratory is demonstrating what the sciences has stated. Paper and cloth masks in school have no effect on respiratory viruses.

As for heat stroke from going outside? Not every child goes to school in Florida and in a month, even Florida will cool off enough to spend time outdoors during the day. None of my schools, K through college ever had air conditioning, of course that was in Ohio. There might have been a class or two in my last year of college in the new biology building that AC, but I have no memory of it. Every one had lots and lots of open windows.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by lkagele

New Study Finds COVID Masks Harm Children’s Physical & Mental Health | Principia Scientific Intl..

A new study, involving over 25,000 school-aged children, shows that masks are harming schoolchildren physically, psychologically, and behaviorally, revealing 24 distinct health issues associated with wearing masks.

But then again, if you get them used to being controlled at an early age, it's gets easier to control them when they're older. So, there's that.......

Yeah it's horrible and cruel, what "they" do to kids. Forcing them to wear a diaper. Shoving spoonsful of mashed peas in their mouths when they're infants. Making them think they should be happy to lose teeth. Requiring them to sit in a chair and decipher marks on bound paper pages. Forcing them to place their arm in an unnatural position while standing erect for a few minutes every single day while they stare at a big piece of cloth that only has blue, red, and white and recite words that no one has ever took a moment to explain to them, promising to do things they don't understand.

Wearing clothes.. wearing UNIFORMS.. "they" definitely want these kids to conform, fall in line, obey their masters.

(or maybe they're just teaching these kids how to grow up to be responsible adults who contribute to society and hopefully leave the world in better shape than it was when they were born)

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Malsua

When you can't attack the message, attack the messenger.

I cited that article because it goes over the studies and actually has links to all of them for you to read yourself.

You're invalidating 14 Random Controlled trials because you don't like who's reporting on the contents. I get it. That's called bias, you're guilty of it.

Once again, my point is this. Blue surgical masks and cloth masks to not reduce, lesson or halt the spread of respiratory viruses. _AT ALL_ The science is clear on it.

If you want to have a mask mandate and do not insist on N95 masks, you're engaging in virtue signaling and theater. What you are not doing is having any effect on the spread of the disease, so save your "but if just one child is saved" garbage. You want to save the children? Make them wear n95 masks or better, full face respirators. Those at least prevent touching face holes(mouth, nose, eyes) with covid fingers.

Why not just link to the studies themselves instead of tying them all to a site of a certain persuasion? It would have more credibility. I certainly am suspicious and biased when it comes to articles put out by groups with an agenda on either side.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Why not just link to the studies themselves instead of tying them all to a site of a certain persuasion? It would have more credibility. I certainly am suspicious and biased when it comes to articles put out by groups with an agenda on either side.

Because If I put up a wall of links, no one is going to click on them.

Some people might, but guess what? If you don't know what a P value is or something as basic as a hazard ratio, you're not going to understand it.

I have a strong background in dealing with medical data. I did a bunch of college work in the field, I worked in the medical field for years(years ago), but I dealt more with the data. I'm not a doctor, but I worked with some genius doctors on developing patient data capture and such. The systems I helped build tracked EXACTLY this kind of data. This is stuff I can read easily.

I'm guessing there are very few folks here that can understand much past the abstract.

The article I posted sums it up. They also point out how the CDC also has an agenda. It's clear that's the case too. Ignore what they don't like, pump up what they do like.
I'm entirely data driven. Give me solid evidence, you can convince me easily. Give me shoddy data, lots of cofounders, ambiguous results with a p value of .65 and I'm out.

The RCTs on masks are pretty good with good P values. The result is, unless you're using an N95, you're wasting your time.

[golfnut]

I don't need a bunch of supposed studies, I use one source the CDC and they say the blue masks are acceptable.

[Carlsondm]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Because they are not mandating N95 masks.

Stop conflating the two.

Paper and cloth masks are as effective at stopping covid infection as they are at stopping you from smelling flatus ejected by a rotund diner at the Golden Correl.

I would be supportive of masking if they were requiring proper N95 or better respirators, well fitted. They are not, they are requiring a magic talisman that has no effect on the prevention of covid transmission.

Totally disagree. Masks do work. The percent effectiveness vary considerably, but masks do offer a small amount of cheap protection from airborne droplets.

Not everyone can wear an N95 mask, especially a fitted N95. The resistance and heat buildup are unbearable for many and could cause other problems. Knowing this, I hope you appreciate what the medical profession is doing for us. Those choosing not to fight the virus anyway they can should be recruited to work in the Covid wards or the morgues for a few days.
This is a pandemic. Be smart. Identify the proper target..the virus and mutations. Let's all work to get things back to normal as quick as possible. The longer this drags on, the more mutations, readaptations are possible.

[Carlsondm]

I totally disagree with the statement that we should all wear N95s.

N95's should be worn with fit testing and training. I guarantee that many the expensive N95s would be seen used as a chin guard as soon as people realized how uncomfortable they are.

We are better off with more breathable masks that more people will wear. They are the troupers in this war. They may be stopping only 20% of the droplets, but that is more than those choosing to not mask or to use the mask properly.
I don't like to see noses exposed either. I consider that some people have been wearing that mask long enough to cause breathing difficulties or are getting very hot. They could add a face shield, but I wouldn't push that until the anti-maskers do their fair share.


Many nurses with occasional covid exposure use the multi-ply surgical masks, sometimes taping it to their faces to improve fit.
They may also wear face shields. Quality surgical masks are effective in hampering the virae (and should be disposed of after use $$)

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Malsua

Sar-cov2 is predominantly spread by aerosols. This is has been established. That you could catch it from someone coughing in your mouth does not change that in the slightest.

Here is a good review of the evidence of mask usage on viral transmission.

Do Masks Work? | City Journal

If you're too lazy to read the entire thing, I'll sum it up for you. They don't do anything and in fact trend to harm. This is based on the 14 RCTs on masks with hand washing and other variables. There are other observational studies and anecdotal stories which are the same or slightly positive.

This is not to say N95 don't work against aerosols. They do but even then, must be well fitted. Beards are out.

Cloth masks actually make health care workers sicker in one RCT.

Anyone who is suggesting a universal mask mandate without requiring an N95 is not following what the science is indicating.

The way I understand the situation is different. The virus only leaves the nose or mouth when it rides on moisture droplets. The large droplets fall to the ground within 3 ft. All droplets from human breath are gone or fallen by about 5.5 ft. That is why the CDC recommends the 6ft social distance (that few actually follow). A sneeze can travel 15 ft or more. There are videos that have been available for about a year that visually confirm this. Many expert Doctors on news shows have stated that even single-layer cloth masks are 15% effective. Yes, it would be nice if N-95 masks were available to all - but US society is only now grudgingly and slowly starting to voluntarily be willing to wear ANY mask. As Delta kills more and more citizens, larger institutions and commercial companies will increasingly mandate vaccines and masks. America - love it or just too bad! For the average person there is NO plan B opt-out provision!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by CFrance

Ah yes, City Journal, published by the Manhattan Institute. Manhattan Institute for Policy Research - SourceWatch

"The Manhattan Institute concerns itself with such things as 'welfare reform' (dismantling social programs), 'faith-based initiatives' (blurring the distinction between church and state), and 'education reform' (destroying public education)," Kurt Nimmo wrote October 10, 2002, in CounterPunch.[3] It was also recognised as leading the Republican/corporate efforts to destroy Ralph Nader and his supporters, in the 1990s.

Thank you for adding some truth to the discussion.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golden

47 studies confirm ineffectiveness of masks for Covid and 32 more confirm their negative health effects. They are simply pacifiers for scared people.

Maybe, possibly (?) the scared people are the smart, correct ones?

[flflowers]

It's a virus. Something to think about...How many times have you been to the doctor when you're sick and they say "there's nothing we can do because...IT'S A VIRUS !!!
So much misinformation, censored information, half truths....do what YOU need to do to feel safe personally but YOUR truth is not EVERYONE'S truth!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Yes, even people of worship get Covid. A lot of news reports pick on the younger generation just because young people mingle more than a lot of adults. Covid will never end until we get it in our heads to do exactly what our medical people tell us what to do. But I know as well as anyone else some people don’t believe what’s really happening.

I just hope Abe Lincoln was right," you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time".........of course, that was before Facebook and other tools of negativity. My own quote, " when a Democracy dies, how can what replaces it be better?"

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by Carlsondm

Totally disagree. Masks do work. The percent effectiveness vary considerably, but masks do offer a small amount of cheap protection from airborne droplets.

.

Once again. Most of the 14 RCTs on masks were done before this pandemic. This means they aren't trying to score some kind of political victory.

That you don't agree means you don't understand what these studies are saying. Most likely you're just agreeing that "something should be done" when the evidence shows that blue or cloth masking is really nothing. It's theatre to make you feel better, it's not actively preventing anything.

I am all for people taking steps that are meaningful. Get your damn vaccinations for one. Wear an N95 for another. The data shows both of those things actually do make a difference. How about losing some weight? Age and high BMI are two of the top 3 reasons people are dying from covid. Get your diabetes and hypertension under control. Plopping a blue mask on your face and thinking "all good" is a bunch of nonsense and is in fact probably counter productive to people taking responsibility for their own health.

Several studies indicate that low D levels also are correlated to bad outcomes. Causative? I don't know, there's no money in studying it. We know that Vitamin D is hormone directly involved in immune regulation, it's got very low toxicity, why aren't we recommending people take at least the maximum recommended dose? It's cheap and easy, yet, the CDC/NIH are silent. The English NHS is at least recommending it for at risk people. There is something there, there just isn't enough data to pinpoint what it means.

If you want to wear a blue mask, go ahead.

If you want to prevent disease, wear an N95, avoid dense crowds and if you're in a dense space, limit your time there.