[fred53]

Originally Posted by mickey100

Well said. There is no way an executive course should take over 2 hours to play no matter how much of a beginner one is. My souse plays with some beginners, and they still end up waiting on every hole. They play ready golf, they pick up after double par, etc.

how do you get beginners to learn the "proper" way to play when nothing is in place to make them learn?

Restating what we all feel is nice in that it pats the poster on the back, but if you have no ideas how to correct the situation your post(and no offense intended)doesn't add much value.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by fred53

there is nothing to get people to sign up for and take the "good golf school" or read up on "ready golf" so in effect you have many people who just go out and play grass hockey.

If people aren't educated in golf etiquette and don't want to be then all of your great ideas(and you aren't the first to note what can be done)are falling on not only deaf ears, but ears that aren't forced to act as you describe.

Right on Fred--- who is in charge. Course employees tell me that they are not allowed to enforce what most would consider reasonable rules of play.I honestly don't know if that statement is true or a misunderstanding. How do we get a better situation for all? To whom do we address concerns?

PS more suggestions
Print on back of Exec score cards -large print (currently in small print,really small at bottom front of card)


1 Reasonable play times
2 Keep in touch with group playing ahead( assuming it is also a foursome)
3 Reminders on Raking and Greens repairs
4 Have the guys/gals who patrol make friendly reminders to rake, repair and play ready golf.
This can be done in a friendly and considerate way.

Post same type of reminders at starter shacks-in full view
Ditto the first tee box.
Post reminders (small) on fairway exit polls= rake and repair , keep up pace.

Doing nothing will only allow a worsening situation. Usually what gets emphasis improves. We are not the first or only golf facilities to have these issues. This is definitely a management issue. It is one of the very few failures in management that I have seen in TV.

[DonH57]

As a beginner I do my best to play "ready golf" and practice proper etiquette. If by chance someone is racing up behind me as I have seen others do I allow them to go ahead since I'm not as advanced as them. I can't count how many times I've gone out and start a round without anyone in front of me and by the time I'm at the 7th hole I see 4somes stacked up and it's getting late. Groups coming up behind me start leaving the course. I now see a general attitude of let's horseplay and don't worry that the ones behind us won't finish tonight. I have had a few experienced golfers help me here in the villages and yet I've also seen snobbery exhibited among others and that only hurts the game in my opinion.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Challenger

To whom do we address concerns?

Good suggestions...........posting here accomplishes nothing.
Contact:
Golf The Villages

Golf & Country Club Administration Office
753-3396

Executive Courses fall under John Rohan, Recreation Director
Recreation Administration
3325 Wedgewood Lane
The Villages, FL 32162

Phone: 352-674-1800
Fax: 352-674-1805

[Mikeod]

One suggestion we have made is to make Good Golf School mandatory before making tee times on any course. The problem is that there is currently no way to monitor whether a player has attended or not, and how to handle renters.

Another suggestion was to change the focus on Good Golf School. My experience was that it focused way too much on the mechanism of getting a tee time and very little on care of the course and etiquette.The last time I attended, at least 2/3 of the time was spent on the tee time system and the last part only superficially and quickly addressed the other topics. One response to the suggestion was that people attend to find out about the tee time system and have less interest in the other topics. We suggested that the presentation be reversed so the course care happens first and the tee time system topic is last. I have not attended recently, so I don't know if that has occurred.

I play a lot by filling in groups. I am not shy about asking people diplomatically to repair divots and ball marks and smooth traps. I dislike the term "rake" because of all the instances I have seen where someone just drags the rake over their footprints without eliminating the depressions. I also remind them that they should smooth the gouge they make with their shot, not just their footprints.

Here is where the ambassadors could be more help. They have Good Golf Certificates that are to be handed out when they observe someone doing something to benefit the course. It could be repairing multiple ball marks, smoothing a bunker, sanding a divot. By issuing the certificate to that player, it reinforces the action for the player and for everyone else in the group. Sadly, I have encountered instance after instance where an ambassador has stopped by a group where some players are repairing multiple ball marks and done nothing. I have been assured by Golf Administration that they encourage ambassadors to hand these out and that they have handed out more each year, but I don't see it happening. Someone posted in an other thread that they only hand them out on the championship courses, but I was assured they hand them out on all courses. Again, my experience says otherwise.

[Russ_Boston]

I've only had one 'slow' round in the past 2 months or so. Most are about 1.5 to 1.75 hours (exec).


I played at Deer Island the other day and it took over 5.5 hours! No lie. Would have walked off but the company was good and my wife was playing well.


Conditions wise: Let's remember that Sweetgum and Mangrove are still very young. All other courses are starting the transition back to in-season Bermuda so it does get rough. I haven't noticed too many problem areas though on the execs.

[waynet]

could it be that there are too many tee times?

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by waynet

could it be that there are too many tee times?

I always wondered how many tee times on a course in a day myself. I thought I remembered once on a related thread that it was stated there was a nine minute stager between tee offs. From what I've observed of a 4 some teeing off it's not possible to see that same 4 some move to the second hole in nine minutes unless they don't complete the hole. If i'm wrong in what I read someone please correct me. In my experiences I've never witnessed a 4 some complete a hole in 9 minutes and I've only been on the executive courses.

[fred53]

Originally Posted by Challenger

Right on Fred--- who is in charge. Course employees tell me that they are not allowed to enforce what most would consider reasonable rules of play.I honestly don't know if that statement is true or a misunderstanding. How do we get a better situation for all? To whom do we address concerns?

PS more suggestions
Print on back of Exec score cards -large print (currently in small print,really small at bottom front of card)


1 Reasonable play times
2 Keep in touch with group playing ahead( assuming it is also a foursome)
3 Reminders on Raking and Greens repairs
4 Have the guys/gals who patrol make friendly reminders to rake, repair and play ready golf.
This can be done in a friendly and considerate way.

Post same type of reminders at starter shacks-in full view
Ditto the first tee box.
Post reminders (small) on fairway exit polls= rake and repair , keep up pace.

Doing nothing will only allow a worsening situation. Usually what gets emphasis improves. We are not the first or only golf facilities to have these issues. This is definitely a management issue. It is one of the very few failures in management that I have seen in TV.

but unfortunately I'm afraid it likely won't work...reason: right now the rules for the red or yellow stakes with green and white tops are posted in large print on the starters shack, at the first tee and on the bottom of every card...what some folks claim-I didn't see it...you can't call them liars as it will accomplish nothing...all you can do is remind them. The same applies to those looking for balls, shooting the breeze, marking scores at the green, parking their cart or bag 20 yds before the green, not putting out, etc. etc. etc.

It is what it is until:Good Golf School is mandatory(suggested by everyone who cares), the ability to escort those who overdo the "not playing of golf" becomes a reality.

Personally I don't mind waiting as I think it's great when those with disabilities caused by life don't move as fast as they used to. As for those who lie...nothing can be done as of now....*shrug*

[fred53]

Originally Posted by mikeod

One suggestion we have made is to make Good Golf School mandatory before making tee times on any course. The problem is that there is currently no way to monitor whether a player has attended or not, and how to handle renters.

Another suggestion was to change the focus on Good Golf School. My experience was that it focused way too much on the mechanism of getting a tee time and very little on care of the course and etiquette.The last time I attended, at least 2/3 of the time was spent on the tee time system and the last part only superficially and quickly addressed the other topics. One response to the suggestion was that people attend to find out about the tee time system and have less interest in the other topics. We suggested that the presentation be reversed so the course care happens first and the tee time system topic is last. I have not attended recently, so I don't know if that has occurred.

I play a lot by filling in groups. I am not shy about asking people diplomatically to repair divots and ball marks and smooth traps. I dislike the term "rake" because of all the instances I have seen where someone just drags the rake over their footprints without eliminating the depressions. I also remind them that they should smooth the gouge they make with their shot, not just their footprints.

Here is where the ambassadors could be more help. They have Good Golf Certificates that are to be handed out when they observe someone doing something to benefit the course. It could be repairing multiple ball marks, smoothing a bunker, sanding a divot. By issuing the certificate to that player, it reinforces the action for the player and for everyone else in the group. Sadly, I have encountered instance after instance where an ambassador has stopped by a group where some players are repairing multiple ball marks and done nothing. I have been assured by Golf Administration that they encourage ambassadors to hand these out and that they have handed out more each year, but I don't see it happening. Someone posted in an other thread that they only hand them out on the championship courses, but I was assured they hand them out on all courses. Again, my experience says otherwise.

but like many other suggestions those who slow it down the most will thank you for the award and continue doing business as usual. I could give out 4 awards to every single group and you will not see an improvement in the pitch marks or bunkers. How do I know? I've given out to whole groups who do the right thing...that didn't change their actions towards the things they don't care about and asking them to repair a pitch mark and then giving them the award is silly.

When playing golf is an afterthought and not the main focus for being on the course there is no quick fix to the lack of proper behavior concerning course conditions and slow play.

[waynet]

I cannot speak to the exec courses,I do not play them. On the championship courses I have a few thoughts on slow play. Some golfers play the wrong tees. Some have no concept of ready golf.Some should not be playing the courses,they are not good enough. But the golf course designs themselves lead to much of the slow play,particularly the condition and shapes of the sandtraps. Many of the bunkers front the greens meaning no run-up shots. Many of them are too big. Those of us who do rake them can spend over a minute raking after a shot.(think 9th hole greenside Caroline) why a bunker that large? Also far too many fairway traps that slow play. Pin positions on certain holes lead to multiple 3 putts. The design of these courses does nothing to help a senior golfer play faster. I think the opposite is true.

[eweissenbach]

Played Palmetto for the first time this morning (off and on in rain). What a great executive course. It replaces Bacall as my favorite exec. Only problem - on seven the foursome in front of us teed off and spent at least ten minutes retrieving balls from around the pond before hitting their second shots. Unbelievable!

[fred53]

Originally Posted by waynet

I cannot speak to the exec courses,I do not play them. On the championship courses I have a few thoughts on slow play. Some golfers play the wrong tees. Some have no concept of ready golf.Some should not be playing the courses,they are not good enough. But the golf course designs themselves lead to much of the slow play,particularly the condition and shapes of the sandtraps. Many of the bunkers front the greens meaning no run-up shots. Many of them are too big. Those of us who do rake them can spend over a minute raking after a shot.(think 9th hole greenside Caroline) why a bunker that large? Also far too many fairway traps that slow play. Pin positions on certain holes lead to multiple 3 putts. The design of these courses does nothing to help a senior golfer play faster. I think the opposite is true.

with the Championship courses perhaps you are playing the wrong courses. I play the hole as it's set up and if, perchance I get into a bunker, or am improperly positioned on the green for that particular pin position I accept it as my mistake and do not blame the course. One sign of a "golfer" playing courses over their head is blaming the course.

As to "ready golf" it is not necessarily desirable on the Championship courses depending on the type of golf being played as there are penalties for playing out of turn(buy the $1 rule book).

The size of bunkers is determined by the difficulty of the hole(among other variables). If you don't have a shot which will carry you over the bunker then you've hit no. 2 for reasons not to play championship courses, or you could always practice a shot you are not comfortable with trying.

By your post you need work on your: putting, sand play(especially fairway)and lob shots...oh also the driver if you keep hitting it off line and into the fairway bunkers.

It is the true golfer who knows their limitations and plays to their strengths....while practicing to reduce their weaknesses....

[eweissenbach]

Originally Posted by fred53

with the Championship courses perhaps you are playing the wrong courses. I play the hole as it's set up and if, perchance I get into a bunker, or am improperly positioned on the green for that particular pin position I accept it as my mistake and do not blame the course. One sign of a "golfer" playing courses over their head is blaming the course.

As to "ready golf" it is not necessarily desirable on the Championship courses depending on the type of golf being played as there are penalties for playing out of turn(buy the $1 rule book).

The size of bunkers is determined by the difficulty of the hole(among other variables). If you don't have a shot which will carry you over the bunker then you've hit no. 2 for reasons not to play championship courses, or you could always practice a shot you are not comfortable with trying.

By your post you need work on your: putting, sand play(especially fairway)and lob shots...oh also the driver if you keep hitting it off line and into the fairway bunkers.

It is the true golfer who knows their limitations and plays to their strengths....while practicing to reduce their weaknesses....

Very snarky post IMHO.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

Very snarky post IMHO.

It is what it is.
Blaming the course is like blaming your clubs.