[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Actually China is a copier but they do some innovation and that is growing. Do not think they will catch up with us but they are very good at stealing our technology.

Historically the Chinese have ignored and even stolen our intellectual property with impunity. I remember when back in the mid 1960s I started a job as a Patent Examiner at the USPTO the staff used the term "Chinese Copy" when a patent application essentially disclosed and claimed what was shown in a reference. lol.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by jbartle1

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

You think the value of their portfolios does not go down when the market goes down?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jbartle1

Funny how the correction and sacrifice doesn’t affect billionares, hmmmm!!!!????

IMO They create the sell off selling millions of stock at high price, that drops market value then the wait like thief in night buy back at way lower value rate which causes market to go up. Then cycle starts all over again.

[MorTech]

Call the tariff a 10% sales tax...Minimum.
China understands...They are dumping treasuries to keep the 10 year yield high.
The tariffs will benefit Mexico. Still.

USD being the global currency means our economy gets offshored/depressed over time. They will probably create a USA only dollar and an outside USA dollar that will be priced differently. The "Eurodollar" needs to be drained to take back control of monetary policy and SOFR replacing LIBOR is a good first step...The tariffs will help even more.

MeThinks the tariffs will bankrupt the European Union and UK...I think that's the plan. The City of London (the autonomous city within London) is a plain 300 year evil. Time to dust off the Monroe Doctrine and take Canada and Greenland away from our European colonizers Trump/Powell/Dimon/Nutlick knows who are real enemies are and it ain't Russia or China.

[MorTech]

There are 300M people in China with an IQ north of 140. They will be just fine after their debt depression and they are the world innovators and producers now.

[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by MorTech

There are 300M people in China with an IQ north of 140. They will be just fine after their debt depression and they are the world innovators and producers now.

An IQ above 140 is in the 99.6th percentile - one in 250 people. With 1.4 billion people, China will have around 6 million above 140. Still plenty to innovate, though.

[MorTech]

300M people with an IQ north of 140 combined with a Confucius/Tso mindset...The human values produced there will be mind blowing.

[RoadToad]

Money in the coffers is the REAL motivation.
Only then can it be pilfered for tax breaks for the (needy??)
0% Tariffs (trade free) only helps the majority of us; and fails to achieve objective.

Originally Posted by Aces4

And that is why there is such a push at this moment to eliminate almost all import, VAT and tariffs from the trade system.

Money in the government coffers? Now there is an interesting premise.

[RoadToad]

Good on you!
Edifying the masses is however an uphill battle.
Stay strong...

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

[Dahabs]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

Very well said!

[Dahabs]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I've had a good peek at it and have to say it is encouraging. Many things the wrongs created will not be corrected without some sacrifice, that won't happen.

If I was a stock market person, I would be investing now. That not is not advice for others, it is just my perspective of things to come.

Good luck.

[rsmurano]

Let’s see, Trump has received $5T of new money to build new things in the states and a lot of them will employ hundreds of thousands of people. You forget, if you are building a plant that will be using robots, you still need a lot of people to build the plant, program and maintain the robots, and a staff to do things that robots can’t do. Every car plant in the world has robots but they also have a large staff to keep it running and to do certain tasks.

The OP brings up a unique situation about trying to move $3 labor plant to the US. This won’t happen, but how about the large tariffs brought by Germany, UK, Japan, and others that make much more than $3 an hour to build cars, these places can move to the states and most of them have for decades.

Remember, Trump isn’t asking nations to pack up shop and relocate here, he gives them multiple choices:
1) build here
2) take your tariffs off and we will take ours off.

Pretty simple. While we are at it, I like trumps idea to create the ERS (external revenue service) that gets the tariff money and reducing or eliminating the IRS.

When CEO’s are interviewed here in the states and even Warren Buffet, they like what Trump is doing with the tariffs. Trumps tariffs from 2017 are still in place today, if they were bad, why haven’t they been eliminated? And since those tariffs are on aluminum and steel, how much have you been paying extra for a can of soda? Since those tariffs are in place, how much aluminum do we import or how much more do our aluminum plants produce of what we buy?

1 more thing, we also have factories or businesses running at 50-75% capacity, maybe tariffs will work out for the US to get these running at full capacity without the need to build something new that could take years.

[bowlingal]

if they move manufacturing at all, it will be many years. Trump will be gone as well as most of us

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

IMO They create the sell off selling millions of stock at high price, that drops market value then the wait like thief in night buy back at way lower value rate which causes market to go up. Then cycle starts all over again.

You mean sell high and buy low? What a novel idea. News flash, it does not apply only to "billionaires". You could jump in and buy now, or try to time the bottom of the market, which usually doesn't turn out too well. Perhaps a better maxim is to buy on the way down and sell on the way up.

[Cliff Fr]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Lets get this straight:

The grand plan trying to reverse 40 years of product trade optimization is very, very risky, and most likely not going to happen. First reason is that the cost is very high and the time frame is very long. To effectively move $3 per hour (est foreign labor rate) human labor to a $15 per hour (living wage cost of living domestic labor rate) requires either the US domestic economy to be put into a depression, or the US consumer will need huge wages increases to buy the domestic products without huge government UBI.

Examples, Tariffing a country like Vietnam, whose labor rate is $3 per hour and whose US tariff rate is 2%, with a 30% tariff, and then have them remove their tariff, reduces their product sales to the US, and still doesn't allow Vietnam the increased cost of living to afford US exports, as no one is increasing their labor rates. If the US tariff is removed, that still doesn't change the current status enough to increase the Vietnam std of living enough to afford US products.

The US's current wealth lost by labor manufacturing, has been replaced by high tech creation, innovation and products, primarily software. The real problem with software is that it can replace human labor, and that problem has a different solution than mfg relocation.

A bakery and a flour-sugar distributor will always run a trade imbalance. The distributor will never buy an equal amount of bakery goods. Same concept applies to Vietnam. . . or any other low wage mfg trading partner.

Second: US mfg is now 10-15% of the US labor. . . to build new capacity will take several years, and Nutlick believes that AI/robots can perform the labor in these new factories. So if this happens, the US consumer wins, but there are no jobs being brought back to the domestic shores. Therefore, where are the labor gains? And if this path is chosen, and the president isn't reelected, or doesn't corrupt the Congress and Judiciary branch to give him unlimited time in office, all this investment can be for not with a new president

Therefore, corporations will just sit and wait it out, and will start cutting labor to survive. It didn't work in the 1930s, and it still won't work in the 2020's.

good luck

Your corrupt comment shows your bias. I for one am rooting main street USA to be prosperous.