[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by bark4me

Use Glyphosate. I had torpedo grass and used it. Killed it in 1 week. Be sure to only spray the torpedo grass because it will kill your other grasses.

And the chemicals just keep getting washed into the aquifer, and runoff into the retention ponds and streams into rivers and into the ocean.

Why use such a cancerous chemical to maintain your lawn's perfection? status ?
The great lawn trap is one of human's worst competitive game fields.

Copilot:

Human Behavioral Biases Around a Green Lawn
A well-maintained green lawn can trigger a mix of positive emotional responses and social behavioral biases that shape how people think, act, and relate to their environment.

1. The “Green” Emotional Bias
Humans have an innate tendency toward nature — known as biophilia — which makes green spaces feel safe, peaceful, and restorative indeville.com. Exposure to a lawn can lower stress hormones, improve mood, and enhance attention restoration Psychology Today+1. This emotional pull can make people more relaxed, creative, and socially open, even if they don’t consciously realize it.

2. Social Norm Bias
In the U.S., the lawn is a deeply embedded cultural symbol, often seen as a marker of status, order, and suburban identity CTAHR Website > Home. This creates a social norm bias: people may feel pressure to maintain a “perfect” lawn to fit in, avoid judgment, or signal success. This can lead to overinvestment in lawn care, even when it’s environmentally costly Turfgrass Science.

3. Environmental Awareness Bias
While green spaces can foster environmental appreciation MDPI, they can also create a greenwashing effect — people may feel good about their lawn without fully understanding its ecological impact. This disconnect can reduce the likelihood of sustainable behaviors, such as water conservation or native plant use, because the lawn itself is perceived as a positive symbol rather than a system with trade-offs Turfgrass Science.

4. Comfort and Connection Bias
Outdoor green spaces, including lawns, are designed to be comfortable and inviting indeville.com. This comfort can encourage social interaction, but it can also create a bias toward passive enjoyment rather than active engagement with the environment. People may linger, relax, or socialize without considering how their presence affects the lawn’s health or sustainability.

5. Technology Adoption Bias
Some homeowners resist adopting sustainable lawn technologies (e.g., smart irrigation, robotic mowers) because they perceive them as inconvenient or unnecessary Turfgrass Science. This reflects a status quo bias — preferring familiar, low-effort maintenance over new, potentially more efficient but unfamiliar methods.

In summary:
A green lawn can trigger biases that make people feel good, fit in socially, and enjoy comfort — but these same biases can hinder environmental responsibility. Understanding these psychological and social drivers can help design lawns and communities that balance aesthetic appeal with sustainable behavior.

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[Danube]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

...This comfort can encourage social interaction, but it can also create a bias toward passive enjoyment rather than active engagement with the environment. People may linger, relax, or socialize without considering how their presence affects the lawn’s health or sustainability...

Oh noes, a bias!

Call 911! Seize them!

[Tvflguy]

OP here. Well I called Chessari sod. They said that they go down 2", fill with soil, then lay down sod. That's it. Dismissed that as the torpedo roots etc would push right up within a year.

Then Called Zoysia Green. Chuck came out yesterday. I saw him inspecting the lawn closely, then we spoke.The infestation IS NOT torpedo grass. It is Bermuda grass. I was shocked, expecting the worst. Kept on questioning him - ARE YOU SURE??? He has 30+ years experience and was positive. Torpedo would be standing up with a different structure. Definitely Bermuda. Probably brought in by a previous lawn company mower years ago.

Bermuda spreads similar to Torpedo - but if managed Bermuda is a great grass. Golf courses use it and Chuck said he has it, and it's beautiful. And my lawn got out of control the last year, with the drought, and me not watering enough. And incorrect fertilization and pest control. That weakened the zoysia and allowed the Bermuda to take over. He said to go on a every 2 month schedule of fert, weed control, mole cricket control, and other stuff. $85 per app. Also aeration - no surprise to me. $135 for a thorough aeration. Then a spread of (forgot the name), but similar to Black Kow - but much better. Chuck did not force anything, just offered best alternative. I asked him to start soon.

Before he came out, I was expecting an expensive, long drawn out process to kill the Torpedo grass. So this is best case for me. Thankfully.

And I thank the posters who suggested Zoysia Green - I researched and they have a great reputation.

-------------------------------------------------------

I since found this online:

Torpedo and Bermuda grasses are tough-to-kill invasive grassy weeds that can attack lawns and take over them. You want to make sure you can identify them correctly in order to control them effectively.

Both torpedo and common Bermuda grasses are perennial invasive grasses?with deep fibrous root systems that can grow and extend to more expansive areas even below nearby concrete sidewalks or driveways, making it very difficult to kill them in one season.


How to identify torpedo grass
Torpedograss (Panicum repens) has sharp pointed leaf tips, thus its name. It has 10 inches long leaves with hairs on the upper surface. The leaves can be linear, folded, or flat with a white wax-like coating. Torpedo grass has a ligule with a fringe of hairs on its upper surface. Another identifying feature is the deep fibrous root system.

How to identify wild Bermuda grass
There are various species of Bermudagrass, and the most common one is Cynodon dactylon. The identifying features of this species are coarse-textured leaves and visible stolons above the ground that make Bermuda grass spread fast. It has a ligule with hairs at the collar region. Its leaves can be hairy or sparsely-haired with round, smooth, or spillted hairy leaf sheaths of between 2- 5 mm tall.

The leaf blades are long, ranging from 2 to 7 inches, 1.5-5 mm wide, and are folded or rounded at the buds.

[Nana2Teddy]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

OP here. Thanks, will contact Zoysia Green tomorrow. Does anyone have experience with 'ripping out' their old grass -totally- and replacing it with new sod? In my case with the torpedo grass, the process of removal would be deep as TG roots etc can go down 4" or so.


If TV allowed a turf lawn (synthetic), I'd jump on that.

Apparently there’s a few ground covers that are allowed in place of sod, but for some reason this isn’t well known. We’re going to look into it, and check with ARC to see what’s allowed because we’re sick of this endless lawn maintenance nightmare, and now fighting chinch bugs. Next time we’re definitely buying a Courtyard Villa where we can have all rock.

[Nana2Teddy]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

OP here. Well I called Chessari sod. They said that they go down 2", fill with soil, then lay down sod. That's it. Dismissed that as the torpedo roots etc would push right up within a year.

Then Called Zoysia Green. Chuck came out yesterday. I saw him inspecting the lawn closely, then we spoke.The infestation IS NOT torpedo grass. It is Bermuda grass. I was shocked, expecting the worst. Kept on questioning him - ARE YOU SURE??? He has 30+ years experience and was positive. Torpedo would be standing up with a different structure. Definitely Bermuda. Probably brought in by a previous lawn company mower years ago.

Bermuda spreads similar to Torpedo - but if managed Bermuda is a great grass. Golf courses use it and Chuck said he has it, and it's beautiful. And my lawn got out of control the last year, with the drought, and me not watering enough. And incorrect fertilization and pest control. That weakened the zoysia and allowed the Bermuda to take over. He said to go on a every 2 month schedule of fert, weed control, mole cricket control, and other stuff. $85 per app. Also aeration - no surprise to me. $135 for a thorough aeration. Then a spread of (forgot the name), but similar to Black Kow - but much better. Chuck did not force anything, just offered best alternative. I asked him to start soon.

Before he came out, I was expecting an expensive, long drawn out process to kill the Torpedo grass. So this is best case for me. Thankfully.

And I thank the posters who suggested Zoysia Green - I researched and they have a great reputation.

-------------------------------------------------------

I since found this online:

Torpedo and Bermuda grasses are tough-to-kill invasive grassy weeds that can attack lawns and take over them. You want to make sure you can identify them correctly in order to control them effectively.

Both torpedo and common Bermuda grasses are perennial invasive grasses?with deep fibrous root systems that can grow and extend to more expansive areas even below nearby concrete sidewalks or driveways, making it very difficult to kill them in one season.


How to identify torpedo grass
Torpedograss (Panicum repens) has sharp pointed leaf tips, thus its name. It has 10 inches long leaves with hairs on the upper surface. The leaves can be linear, folded, or flat with a white wax-like coating. Torpedo grass has a ligule with a fringe of hairs on its upper surface. Another identifying feature is the deep fibrous root system.

How to identify wild Bermuda grass
There are various species of Bermudagrass, and the most common one is Cynodon dactylon. The identifying features of this species are coarse-textured leaves and visible stolons above the ground that make Bermuda grass spread fast. It has a ligule with hairs at the collar region. Its leaves can be hairy or sparsely-haired with round, smooth, or spillted hairy leaf sheaths of between 2- 5 mm tall.

The leaf blades are long, ranging from 2 to 7 inches, 1.5-5 mm wide, and are folded or rounded at the buds.

I wonder if Zoysia Green services down below 44? We’re gonna fire Fertigator so if we can’t change to a ground cover we’ll need another lawn company. Instead of Black Cow did he maybe say Milorganite?

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevinator

I had a huge torpedo grass issue. I tried several weed killers and glysophate in the heavily infested areas but it just kept getting worse. I eventually put enough weed killer down that it practically killed my entire lawn.

I called Chessari Sod Services and Landscape LLC to replace the entire lawn with new St Augustine grass. Not sure which variety they used.

They used a sod cutter to remove what was left of the existing lawn on a Monday.

On Tuesday, using a sprayer, I applied several gallons of glysophate to the dirt that remained to hopefully get anything that was left. The following day, Chessari installed the new sod. It seemed to be a much better quality than what was initially installed during my build.

Now it’s been a year this month since the replacement. My yard looks like a carpet. There is an occasional torpedo stringer that pops up here and there, but I treat that spot directly. The grass is extremely thick and I think that helps choke out some of the bad things that try to emerge. Good luck.

I would love to know which variety of St. Augustine you laid. I put the Provista down 2 years ago and my side and rear areas are fine, but the front yard has stayed thin. I was just recently informed by someone at Lake Jem Farms that the Provista is not ideal in full sun.

[Miboater]

Originally Posted by Nana2Teddy

I wonder if Zoysia Green services down below 44? We’re gonna fire Fertigator so if we can’t change to a ground cover we’ll need another lawn company. Instead of Black Cow did he maybe say Milorganite?

Zoysia Green was the first lawn care company that we had south of 44 so at one time they did go below 44. I was having issues with them and went with Dean's and they weren't any better.

[Lanieb]

Originally Posted by Altavia

I really hate FL lawns...

What would you recommend as the replacement sod?

I’m going to replace my boring grass for peanut grass as it has a lovely yellow flower

[Miboater]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

I would love to know which variety of St. Augustine you laid. I put the Provista down 2 years ago and my side and rear areas are fine, but the front yard has stayed thin. I was just recently informed by someone at Lake Jem Farms that the Provista is not ideal in full sun.

I have ProVista and I have the exact opposite experience. The areas that get full sun are doing great and the shaded areas are thinner which is normally how St Augustine grows. One thing that worked for me was when I started fertilizing myself and noticed a huge improvement in growth. According to the Florida website we can apply 4 lbs of nitrogen per year. I do 3 lbs per year and the grass got really thick. A bonus is that now it is thick I can dial back my irrigation as it holds the water better than when it was thin.

[Tvflguy]

Originally Posted by Nana2Teddy

I wonder if Zoysia Green services down below 44? We’re gonna fire Fertigator so if we can’t change to a ground cover we’ll need another lawn company. Instead of Black Cow did he maybe say Milorganite?

Don't know - call them 352 323 8454 Shanda is the admin there.

It's called a Humic Treatment

[DonnaNi4os]

I’d like to find a way to kill “artillery fern” that grows everywhere you don’t want it. I was told by a landscaper that when I pull it the plant drops seeds, therefore only spreading
it. Spraying it makes it black but doesn’t kill it. I was told that there is a weed spray only available to licensed herbicide people that will get rid of it. However, it must be applied for 3
continuous months and even then there is no guarantee that it won’t return. After some research I found out that you can buy it and use it to mound. Anyone find a way to rid their yard of artillery fern???

[Pondboy]

Originally Posted by Indydealmaker

I would love to know which variety of St. Augustine you laid. I put the Provista down 2 years ago and my side and rear areas are fine, but the front yard has stayed thin. I was just recently informed by someone at Lake Jem Farms that the Provista is not ideal in full sun.

Check your irrigation. Your St Aug. needs 1 to 1.5” of water per week. Do the “Tuna Can Test”. If you have a moisture meter, stick that in the soil before your next irrigation run to see the moisture content.

If that’s fine, your front lawn might need a bit more fertilizer due to different soil from your back / side yards.

St. Aug does best in full sun.

[Smalley]

I agree with all the posters who feel that grass lawns are high maintenance, expensive, use too much water and herbicide and are just not worth it. We should have non-grass options here especially low water plants. Does anyone know what possibilities exist? We chose a courtyard villa with no lawn and have no regrets.

[Pondboy]

Originally Posted by DonnaNi4os

I’d like to find a way to kill “artillery fern” that grows everywhere you don’t want it. I was told by a landscaper that when I pull it the plant drops seeds, therefore only spreading
it. Spraying it makes it black but doesn’t kill it. I was told that there is a weed spray only available to licensed herbicide people that will get rid of it. However, it must be applied for 3
continuous months and even then there is no guarantee that it won’t return. After some research I found out that you can buy it and use it to mound. Anyone find a way to rid their yard of artillery fern???

Here’s some information on your “Artillery Fern” from the AG Dept of the Univ of FL

ENH1272/EP535: Biology and Management of Pilea microphylla (Artillery Weed) in Ornamental Crop Production


I have it as well but never really paid much attention to it. I hand pull it and toss it. It’s not overly bad in my planting beds.

In looking over the info, it does spread via seed and only a few chemicals work very well to kill it. Of those chemicals I’m only familiar with flumioxazin. But that one is very, very expensive over $100 per gallon. Of the other chemicals listed, Diquat was somewhat effective. Glyphosate was poor, so don’t get that. I’d recommend checking with the folks at Sparr Building Supply (over by Brownwood) to see if they carry Diquat. You might also find it at HD or Lowe’s…..it’s sometimes used as the active ingredient in “Round Up”. Check the label as a few different chemicals are used for Round Up and they seem to switch them around.

Once you get the chemical, use an artists paint brush to apply the undiluted chemical on the fern. Just paint it. Timing is everything since it does grow from seed, so you might go thru a few generations of this plant to bring it under control and hopefully eliminate it.

Not sure what 3 month chemical you are referring to unless it was the pre emergent.

Hope that helps.

[Pondboy]

Originally Posted by Smalley

I agree with all the posters who feel that grass lawns are high maintenance, expensive, use too much water and herbicide and are just not worth it. We should have non-grass options here especially low water plants. Does anyone know what possibilities exist? We chose a courtyard villa with no lawn and have no regrets.

For your low water plants, you could check out “Native Florida Plants”. Natives are always the best options. So you can “google” central Florida native plants or even better, check out Lowes, HD or any local nursery’s to see what they have in stock. I understand that Moon Valley Nursery’s is very nice.