[Fredster]

Originally Posted by Mosells

When we’re a socialist country we’ll have universal health care. Be careful what you wish for my friends, be careful.

Yes, everything has a price, of this you can be sure!

[billethkid]

The post did not appear when quoted.....hence

"Reminder of existing US socialism: fire dept, police dept, medicare, social security, to name a few."

My response:

Not really.
All paid for by most of us.

[Bucco]

I fear much of what you folks fear.

My problem is how the word "socialist" is thrown around with absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.

"A Socialist country is a country where the government or the public as a whole has control over the economy. In a socialist country, the producing and dispersing of goods is owned by the government. Socialism is placed in between capitalism and communism."

Is bailing out our banks "socialism"....is the paying of farmers "socialism"....having PUBLIC services paid with taxes..is that "socialism"

YOU are being fed a lot of garbage....you certainly can object to "socialism"...that is your right......CANADA.....Socialism in Canada has a long history and is, along with conservatism and liberalism, a political force in Canada. Those rotten Canadians.

Our country has a constitution, and laws that basically will not allow a move so far as to deem it socialism.

Please know the definition before throwing things around that you do not even understand. Attacks on our constitution and laws are closer to "socialism" than anything you mention.

A health plan partially subsidized might work, but if you are going to be told that it is extreme, then you just do not understand.

We have two bodies of congress that are supposed to talk to each other......we also have lobby groups that spend more money in lobbying than you can even imagine. Gun laws...bill passed, not discussed ...still awaiting any talk.

Rembmer "E PLURIBUS UNUM".....One of many. That applies to our people as well as ideas.

Would it not be nice to have those folks elected to talk to each other and work out compromises ? BUT, we are always talking in such generalities..we label folks in such a general way blacks, whites etc without even knowing much about any of it...then we blame the other side for doing it. AN IDEA......lets try and discuss ISSUES without the labels and accusations.....it USED to work.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I fear much of what you folks fear.

My problem is how the word "socialist" is thrown around with absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.

"A Socialist country is a country where the government or the public as a whole has control over the economy. In a socialist country, the producing and dispersing of goods is owned by the government. Socialism is placed in between capitalism and communism."

Is bailing out our banks "socialism"....is the paying of farmers "socialism"....having PUBLIC services paid with taxes..is that "socialism"

YOU are being fed a lot of garbage....you certainly can object to "socialism"...that is your right......CANADA.....Socialism in Canada has a long history and is, along with conservatism and liberalism, a political force in Canada. Those rotten Canadians.

Our country has a constitution, and laws that basically will not allow a move so far as to deem it socialism.

Please know the definition before throwing things around that you do not even understand. Attacks on our constitution and laws are closer to "socialism" than anything you mention.

A health plan partially subsidized might work, but if you are going to be told that it is extreme, then you just do not understand.

We have two bodies of congress that are supposed to talk to each other......we also have lobby groups that spend more money in lobbying than you can even imagine. Gun laws...bill passed, not discussed ...still awaiting any talk.

Rembmer "E PLURIBUS UNUM".....One of many. That applies to our people as well as ideas.

Would it not be nice to have those folks elected to talk to each other and work out compromises ? BUT, we are always talking in such generalities..we label folks in such a general way blacks, whites etc without even knowing much about any of it...then we blame the other side for doing it. AN IDEA......lets try and discuss ISSUES without the labels and accusations.....it USED to work.

"Rembmer "E PLURIBUS UNUM".....One of many. That applies to our people as well as ideas."

"E PLURIBUS UNUM" actually means "one from many", or "out of many, one",
not "one of many". Picky I know but.....................a difference in meaning.

[npwalters]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I fear much of what you folks fear.

My problem is how the word "socialist" is thrown around with absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.

"A Socialist country is a country where the government or the public as a whole has control over the economy. In a socialist country, the producing and dispersing of goods is owned by the government. Socialism is placed in between capitalism and communism."

Is bailing out our banks "socialism"....is the paying of farmers "socialism"....having PUBLIC services paid with taxes..is that "socialism"

YOU are being fed a lot of garbage....you certainly can object to "socialism"...that is your right......CANADA.....Socialism in Canada has a long history and is, along with conservatism and liberalism, a political force in Canada. Those rotten Canadians.

Our country has a constitution, and laws that basically will not allow a move so far as to deem it socialism.

Please know the definition before throwing things around that you do not even understand. Attacks on our constitution and laws are closer to "socialism" than anything you mention.

A health plan partially subsidized might work, but if you are going to be told that it is extreme, then you just do not understand.

We have two bodies of congress that are supposed to talk to each other......we also have lobby groups that spend more money in lobbying than you can even imagine. Gun laws...bill passed, not discussed ...still awaiting any talk.

Rembmer "E PLURIBUS UNUM".....One of many. That applies to our people as well as ideas.

Would it not be nice to have those folks elected to talk to each other and work out compromises ? BUT, we are always talking in such generalities..we label folks in such a general way blacks, whites etc without even knowing much about any of it...then we blame the other side for doing it. AN IDEA......lets try and discuss ISSUES without the labels and accusations.....it USED to work.

Actually I am smart enough to understand. The fact I don't agree does not mean I don't understand. We have subsidized health insurance. It is called ACA or Obamacare.

[jebartle]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Wondering where the huge payouts farmers receivd caused by a trade war fits. It dwarfs the amount that both parties agreed to give to automakers to save that industry.

It is a word that is used simply for politics and the true meaning is long gone.

Automakers loan, paid in full, fact check proves this, another example of government success!

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

"Rembmer "E PLURIBUS UNUM".....One of many. That applies to our people as well as ideas."

"E PLURIBUS UNUM" actually means "one from many", or "out of many, one",
not "one of many". Picky I know but.....................a difference in meaning.

Thank you so much for correcting me. Important stuff.

Bottom line, it began with one country from 13 states, but has morphed into representing all heritages.

I am sure I am not the first that you had to correct. For me, personally, it represents a country that is a blend of all colors, all religions , all heritages all coming together as one.

That is what I fought for, and for what so many have died for. It has changed recently, and I worry more about that than I do about how I might type it, but thanks for correcting me.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Automakers loan, paid in full, fact check proves this, another example of government success!

And the banks....

"In total, the government has realized a $116B profit as of October 2, 2019."

That profit from nterest earned.

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Difference is that this was done TOGETHER

[Tom C]

I sure hope that free medical for all and free education for all and free food or all, and free housing for all and free all for all NEVER COMES. That is the definition of socialism and look how that is FAILING all around the globe!

Like nearly all here in TV, I have worked hard and did without MANY things throughout my life. I put away for my retirement. I did without, and went to bed hungry after working hard every day for many years. I paid my dues, while raising my children, giving them the best I could while doing without for myself.

There is no such thing as a “free lunch”. This is how we keep our freedom from an overpowering government. Don’t be fooled into thinking they have YOUR best interest in mind. They (the government) are going to give to THEMSELVES first.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

I have several friends living in Canada, France and The UK. I have spoken to each one of them about their system, and they love it. Their systems are more of a social democracy, and as I understand it, they are still market based. Yes, they pay higher taxes, but I wonder if anyone did a cost comparison between the amount of taxes paid vs. the cost of insurance. Just yesterday I had to pay $100 for a generic drug, because of the donut hole system. And it seems most dentists don't take insurance, or they don't take UHC insurance, and so we just had to pay over $700 for an initial visit.

Dentistry’s have their own insurance coverage, if you policy covers dental most likely you pay higher premiums. Otherwise you have buy dental insurance and with most insurance it’s a rip off cause the fine print clauses won’t pay for anything expensive until you’ve paid double or triple for that procedure.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Tom C

I sure hope that free medical for all and free education for all and free food or all, and free housing for all and free all for all NEVER COMES. That is the definition of socialism and look how that is FAILING all around the globe!

Like nearly all here in TV, I have worked hard and did without MANY things throughout my life. I put away for my retirement. I did without, and went to bed hungry after working hard every day for many years. I paid my dues, while raising my children, giving them the best I could while doing without for myself.

There is no such thing as a “free lunch”. This is how we keep our freedom from an overpowering government. Don’t be fooled into thinking they have YOUR best interest in mind. They (the government) are going to give to THEMSELVES first.

Where in this wide wide world did you ever come up with such fears ?

From where ?

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by npwalters

Actually I am smart enough to understand. The fact I don't agree does not mean I don't understand. We have subsidized health insurance. It is called ACA or Obamacare.

Glad you are smart, maybe you can explain.......
----------

"The bottom line: cumulatively from 2010 to 2017 the ACA reduced health care spending a total of $2.3 trillion."

"In 2017 alone, health expenditures were $650 billion lower than projected, and kept health care spending under 18 percent of GDP — basically a tad over where it was in 2010 when the ACA was passed. It did all of this while expanding health coverage to more than 20 million previously uninsured Americans.

Compared to the 2010 projections, the government’s Medicare bill in 2017 was 10 percent ($70 billion) less, and spending for Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program was a whopping $250 billion below expectations (partially — but only partially — due to the failure of some states to expand the program). The actuary had predicted in 2010 that employer-sponsored insurance would cost $1.21 trillion in 2017, but it came in at $1.04 trillion, a difference of $170 billion for that year.

Put another way, health care spending in 2017 was $2,000 less per person than it was projected to be. And for the 176 million Americans who have private employer-sponsored insurance, their lower premiums averaged just under $1,000 per person."

The Affordable Care Act has saved billions in health care costs - STAT
-------------------
These are government numbers and confirmed

Guess I need explained how it saved so much, yet is so horrible, and "socialist".

Compared to....oh, there is nothing to compare it to.....sorry. For the record, and you certainly can check my posts (I have been here that long) to see how I opposed it. Maybe still might but it is working and no other plan exists.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Glad you are smart, maybe you can explain.......
----------

"The bottom line: cumulatively from 2010 to 2017 the ACA reduced health care spending a total of $2.3 trillion."

"In 2017 alone, health expenditures were $650 billion lower than projected, and kept health care spending under 18 percent of GDP — basically a tad over where it was in 2010 when the ACA was passed. It did all of this while expanding health coverage to more than 20 million previously uninsured Americans.

Compared to the 2010 projections, the government’s Medicare bill in 2017 was 10 percent ($70 billion) less, and spending for Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program was a whopping $250 billion below expectations (partially — but only partially — due to the failure of some states to expand the program). The actuary had predicted in 2010 that employer-sponsored insurance would cost $1.21 trillion in 2017, but it came in at $1.04 trillion, a difference of $170 billion for that year.

Put another way, health care spending in 2017 was $2,000 less per person than it was projected to be. And for the 176 million Americans who have private employer-sponsored insurance, their lower premiums averaged just under $1,000 per person."

The Affordable Care Act has saved billions in health care costs - STAT
-------------------
These are government numbers and confirmed

Guess I need explained how it saved so much, yet is so horrible, and "socialist".

Compared to....oh, there is nothing to compare it to.....sorry. For the record, and you certainly can check my posts (I have been here that long) to see how I opposed it. Maybe still might but it is working and no other plan exists.

There is much to compare to in the ACA and it is a poorly thought out plan. Ask the people who lost their health care coverage from their employers and along with the loss of income due to the premiums for poor coverage and large co-pays. Costs should be down, many people are now not seeking necessary services and tests because the expense to them is exorbitant with deductibles, co-pays and non-covered services.

Talk to the people who are under that coverage and get the real feedback.

[Nucky]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Australia, Germany, France, Canada, UK, Russia to name a few. Will it ever happen in US?

This was the original question from our OP.

I understand it is a hot topic. It Seems like a Yes or No QUESTION. I believe without pointing anyone out specifically which is against the rules of our Forum that Healthcare of some sort is needed immediately by somebody who has the need to be a "Teacher"!

My answer to the OP is a Simple No Way Jack It'll NEVER happen. EVER!

Keep it Simple, NOT HAPPENING! Thank you very much!

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

There is much to compare to in the ACA and it is a poorly thought out plan. Ask the people who lost their health care coverage from their employers and along with the loss of income due to the premiums for poor coverage and large co-pays. Costs should be down, many people are now not seeking necessary services and tests because the expense to them is exorbitant with deductibles, co-pays and non-covered services.

Talk to the people who are under that coverage and get the real feedback.

No, I do not need to talk to anyone.

Those elected officials should be talking to each other to fix something that does save health costs, but needs work

Instead, we erase it, one piece at a time just for so..THAT WILL cause oroblems