[mickey100]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

This has been discussed before - protein, nutrients etc not being provided in a plant based diet is totally incorrect a myth.


The only supplement that may be needed is B12

U can simply Google those studies

I agree. I used to be a vegetarian, and read how one can combine certain grains, dairy products, etc., to make a complete protein. I've since become a meat eater, but we tend to have quite small portions, and dont' eat a lot of beef, more chicken and fish. We love our salads and fruits, and try to go organic when possible. I personally think exercise has a huge effect on our health, and can make up for many bad eating habits. I'm amazed at how some people let their bodies go. I work really hard at taking care of my body. Its the only one we have! Plus exercise just plain makes me feel better.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by pooh

And that could just be the answer for some, VillagesPL, life length is not guaranteed, and they prefer to do what they enjoy while they still have life, even if it means a shorter one.

I see your point but sometimes I wonder if they have ever seen how life ends. If life would end neatly like switching off a light switch, I would say their plan is a good one. A good example might be sudden death from a heart attack. It's neat, clean and quick. And they might have just enjoyed a big buffet.

But most of the time life doesn't end neat, clean and quick. Therefore, it seems a bit short sighted, in my opinion. More often than not I think life ends agonizingly slow, with a great deal of suffering.

I've had two friends, one with cancer and one with a stroke, both of whom said to me, "I don't know why I can't die"! Obviously things did not go as they had planned. They thought they would just die and didn't imagine how long and drawn out the suffering would be.

It's fairly common knowledge (I've read this many times) that people who live long healthy lives usually die quickly and easily. Of course it's not something that everyone can do; I realize that. But that would be my goal.

An example of that: A man got a big write up in the daily Sun. He was going to celebrate his 100th birthday. There would be a party at KFC and everyone was invited. So I went. Meeting a 100 year old person was a first for me and I enjoyed the whole experience. About 4 years later I bumped into him at the Golden Corral. On his way to the front door he tripped and fell face first onto the parking lot. No big deal; he just got up like nothing had happened.

I kept track of him by looking for his name in the phone book. Every year his name was in the book. Finally, this year he was to be 109 in July. But shortly before his birthday I heard a doctor on the radio say that his 109 year old patient had died. It turned out to be the man I knew. The doctor said the man (his patient) was sitting in his living room and looked like he had just fallen asleep. And the amazing thing: The doctor said he never had anything wrong with him. His heart just stopped. This happens a lot to centenarians.

[pooh]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I see your point but sometimes I wonder if they have ever seen how life ends. If life would end neatly like switching off a light switch, I would say their plan is a good one. A good example might be sudden death from a heart attack. It's neat, clean and quick. And they might have just enjoyed a big buffet.

But most of the time life doesn't end neat, clean and quick. Therefore, it seems a bit short sighted, in my opinion. More often than not I think life ends agonizingly slow, with a great deal of suffering.

I've had two friends, one with cancer and one with a stroke, both of whom said to me, "I don't know why I can't die"! Obviously things did not go as they had planned. They thought they would just die and didn't imagine how long and drawn out the suffering would be.

It's fairly common knowledge (I've read this many times) that people who live long healthy lives usually die quickly and easily. Of course it's not something that everyone can do; I realize that. But that would be my goal.

An example of that: A man got a big write up in the daily Sun. He was going to celebrate his 100th birthday. There would be a party at KFC and everyone was invited. So I went. Meeting a 100 year old person was a first for me and I enjoyed the whole experience. About 4 years later I bumped into him at the Golden Corral. On his way to the front door he tripped and fell face first onto the parking lot. No big deal; he just got up like nothing had happened.

I kept track of him by looking for his name in the phone book. Every year his name was in the book. Finally, this year he was to be 109 in July. But shortly before his birthday I heard a a doctor on the radio say that his 109 year old patient had died. It turned out to be the man I knew. The doctor said the man (his patient) was sitting in his living room and looked like he had just fallen asleep. And the amazing thing: The doctor said he never had anything wrong with him. His heart just stopped. This happens a lot to centenarians.

He passed as we all wish to, at peace and hopefully with little or no pain. 109, wow!
It may seem shortsighted to you, but people are people, some are more in tune with the here and now, others are happier when they realize just what they may face, and plan ahead to minimize future suffering if they feel there is a way.

People are always taking risks, making an assumption that if they die, well, they die. They forget that they might NOT die and face long years of suffering. That's how people are. Everyone is unique, everyone sees the world differently.
We all have individual attitudes about how to live and enjoy. The thought of dying quickly or slowly doesn't always come to mind....some just live. When death comes, it will come and if suffering is a part of it, well, then it is.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Most of the time life doesn't end neat, clean and quick...,...More often than not I think life ends agonizingly slow, with a great deal of suffering.

This opens up another topic of assisted suicide. But I don't want to hijack this thread, and perhaps it's too grim a topic for a light-hearted website.

[NotGolfer]

I have several thoughts on this subject. I think degenerative diseases happen for a variety of reasons. One, is folks are living longer than they did years ago. Two, sometimes it's a genetic thing. Three, we're all growing older and this is just another thing that is one of the symptoms of that.

I have a number of degenerative issues....can't blame the relatives unless I have a recessive gene somewhere.

All I know is that we're not going to get out of this life, alive!! With this...I don't think it's up to the individual to decide when the "end" is to happen. But as someone else said, this is another subject altogether and will deal with the spiritual philosophies of folks. I think it's best left alone........

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

I have several thoughts on this subject. I think degenerative diseases happen for a variety of reasons. One, is folks are living longer than they did years ago. Two, sometimes it's a genetic thing. Three, we're all growing older and this is just another thing that is one of the symptoms of that.

I have a number of degenerative issues....can't blame the relatives unless I have a recessive gene somewhere.

All I know is that we're not going to get out of this life, alive!! With this...I don't think it's up to the individual to decide when the "end" is to happen. But as someone else said, this is another subject altogether and will deal with the spiritual philosophies of folks. I think it's best left alone........

As for me, your last statement is a known fact and there is no reason to dwell on it. We can choose to live life or adopt a lot of techniques and ways that may or may not give us some extra years. The secret is to keep laughing and keep moving and keep hugging.

[lightworker888]

who lived a long life eating really healthy, thanks to the wife's efforts to do so. They died in a car accident (or maybe it was a golf cart) and when they got to heaven they are told that anything they want is free for the asking, including great golf courses and long buffets. The husband turns to the wife and says " You and all those healthy foods. If I hadn't listened I could have been here sooner!"


LW888

[Taltarzac725]

The Jury Is Still Out - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

I wonder if the life expectancy of people in areas where meat is a luxury have had longer life expectancies than people in areas where meat is much more affordable??

[pooh]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

The Jury Is Still Out - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

I wonder if the life expectancy of people in areas where meat is a luxury have had longer life expectancies than people in areas where meat is much more affordable??

Very interesting Tal, thanks for posting this article.

[jimbo2012]

Just keep in mind that is only an opinion of a blogger not a doctor that is in the field of nutrition.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Just keep in mind that is only an opinion of a blogger not a doctor that is in the field of nutrition.

True, but the blogger was a Vegan for nine years before quitting for health reasons!

[jimbo2012]

I didn't read where he said that, in any event depending on your own individual health issues if any, I suggest that you should monitor your vitals and have blood work done every 60 days or so, work with a doctor.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I see your point but sometimes I wonder if they have ever seen how life ends. If life would end neatly like switching off a light switch, I would say their plan is a good one. A good example might be sudden death from a heart attack. It's neat, clean and quick. And they might have just enjoyed a big buffet.

But most of the time life doesn't end neat, clean and quick. Therefore, it seems a bit short sighted, in my opinion. More often than not I think life ends agonizingly slow, with a great deal of suffering.

I've had two friends, one with cancer and one with a stroke, both of whom said to me, "I don't know why I can't die"! Obviously things did not go as they had planned. They thought they would just die and didn't imagine how long and drawn out the suffering would be.

It's fairly common knowledge (I've read this many times) that people who live long healthy lives usually die quickly and easily. Of course it's not something that everyone can do; I realize that. But that would be my goal.

An example of that: A man got a big write up in the daily Sun. He was going to celebrate his 100th birthday. There would be a party at KFC and everyone was invited. So I went. Meeting a 100 year old person was a first for me and I enjoyed the whole experience. About 4 years later I bumped into him at the Golden Corral. On his way to the front door he tripped and fell face first onto the parking lot. No big deal; he just got up like nothing had happened.

I kept track of him by looking for his name in the phone book. Every year his name was in the book. Finally, this year he was to be 109 in July. But shortly before his birthday I heard a a doctor on the radio say that his 109 year old patient had died. It turned out to be the man I knew. The doctor said the man (his patient) was sitting in his living room and looked like he had just fallen asleep. And the amazing thing: The doctor said he never had anything wrong with him. His heart just stopped. This happens a lot to centenarians.

If I didn't know you better, I'd think you were stalking that old gentleman by looking up his number in the phone book........etc.

What were you eating at the Golden Corral?

I hear you on the death of the elderly........sometimes it's just their time to go.

When we'd visit my mom, there was one 95 year old gentleman who was just a pleasure to chat with; he had a twinkle in his eye and remembered all the "long ago" stories of growing up in the mountains of Vermont, the black flies, his dad's camp, etc. and his love affair with his dear wife who had predeceased him.

He would tell me that he couldn't wait to join her. A year or so later, his back began acting up and he could hardly walk from his chair or bedroom to his bathroom without agonizing pain.......but he still had a delightful sense of humor and all his marbles..........finally, I guess the pain got to be too much for him. He told the head nurse that he was refusing all meals and just wanted WATER ..........he had no chronic or fatal illness other than that he was frail and his back hurt something fierce. Old bones, etc.......which is understandable.

They gave him milkshakes at first and then obliged him with the water alone. He kept telling me he wanted to "go and be with his wife".
He got his wish. We all missed him. The human body cannot go on forever.

My own Italian grandmother, who passed on Good Friday of 1965, told her daughters that she was "retiring to her bedroom and they shouldn't bother her"; she also gave instructions for NO FOOD.......JUST A PITCHER OF WATER......she also wanted to "be with her husband" who had died FIFTY YEARS PRIOR. She also had all her marbles so my aunts obliged her. It took about 7 days. She died one month before my wedding.

She had been mobile but was getting frail in her mid 90's. Died at 95.
Was very active until age 90. For all of our friends and other relatives, 91 seems to be the magic age.........those who do go beyond 100 have amazing genetics.

We know a 95 year old in town who still runs in senior marathons and he doesn't look a day older than 75.....if that. A cheerful, jolly, happy man.
So I agree with those who say joyfulness counts.

My grandmother had a good sense of humor. When my dad and mom brought me and my fiance to meet my grandmother, she took one look at this tall, green eyed sandy blonde haired "youth" and said in broken English......."Oh , he's so handsome........look at those green eyes......
TOO BAD HE'S NOT ITALIAN"...........we all laughed. She had come from Italy at age 16 to marry her Italian fiance from the same village.

SHE HAD BLUE EYES. EVERYONE ELSE HAD DARK BROWN EYES......EXCEPT HER ONE DAUGHTER, MY GODMOTHER.

So, at 95 she still was "sharp as a tack"........but no longer wanted to live...........although she could still admire a handsome young man.

Nowadays, NO ONE HAS TO SUFFER WHEN THEY DIE.
We know a lot of people who have died recently.
They all were given morphine constantly and no one suffered, believe me.

[senior citizen]

p.s.
Just a memory of another 95 year old gentleman who died, but had waited till his son flew in from Portland, Maine.............he was sitting up in the chair in his hospital room..........not in any pain at all........had the last conversation with his youngest son.......then had some breathing difficulty which gave him a tiny bit of anxiety (as the son told me on the telephone; this was a distant cousin).......the nurse gave him a shot of morphine and he peacefully left this earth.

He had been at home until that day, with end stage lung cancer..........never smoked a day in his life; was a librarian.........anyway, I was told it was a peaceful death as was my mom's a peaceful death as I had sat with her all day at the nursing home by her bedside.

My librarian cousin also had his wonderful intelligence and joy of living right up to the end........but kept saying, as did all the others............"I want to join my wife".
She had died years earlier.

I know the spirit lives on............but that's another discussion........

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Just keep in mind that is only an opinion of a blogger not a doctor that is in the field of nutrition.

Originally Posted by Barefoot

True, but the blogger was a Vegan for nine years.

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

I didn't read where he said that,

It was mentioned in the leadup to the article:

"Rhys Southan was vegan for nine years before quitting for health reasons. He critiques the arguments for veganism on his blog Let Them Eat Meat."