[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Well, I'm tolerant of all viewpoints. There isn't only one right way to anything. Anyone who lives long enough can tell you that.

Living "long enough"? How long is that? And what about health? In addition to "life expectancy" there's such a thing as "health expectancy".

In the bigger scheme of things, the healthiest person in the world could get swept up by a tornado spawned by this new tropical storm which will soon hit the Panhandle of Florida..........we just saw on the news how Debby has flooded Sarasota and caused deaths south of Tampa, etc.

Everyone stay safe.

The weird part of it all, is that we saw Ginger Zee (?) on ABC weekend news.......first she said that it was heading towards Texas.........(whereas we saw the radar seemingly going toward the Gulf Coast of Florida).

Then, Sunday evening, she changed her direction and said the tropical storm would hit the panhandle.

I wonder if people in Sarasota, etc.had adequate warning?
Even Cedar Key looks pretty bad and it's not in the direct eye of the storm.

Would you please start a new thread for "weather talk".

Again, stay safe. As my dear old mom would say......"When your number is up, your number is up". She passed at 91. According to her internist who was a close friend and neighbor.......after doing extensive tests on her at the hospital......."Your mom has the heart, lungs, bones, etc. of a much younger woman". She was in perfect health.....ultimately Alzheimers came along....at the end. Now, no one will like to hear this, but even the nurses would say that when the body gets that frail and you no longer can take care of yourself........perhaps death is a blessing.
It's not to be feared. Anyone who has visited skilled nursing homes will agree that living longer isn't always as wonderful as it's cracked up to be.

Death is not to be feared but needless (debilitating) degenerative diseases can be avoided in most cases.

Age sneaks up on everyone.............no matter what we do or don't do.

Aging is a very slow deterioration of one's health and that's what makes it possible for many to continue their addiction to junk foods. If they can't detect the harm in the short run they assume that no harm is done.

By the way, mom NEVER took all those Fosamax and Boniva and she did walk every day on ice and snow.......sometimes fell.....NEVER broke a bone; never ended up in the hospital for any type of surgery.......never got cancer.........never had a heart attack........she always wondered if she'd live to 95 like my grandmother did. That's another lady that ate everything.......obviously in those days, food was not "supersized".

And your point is? We should all trust in "dumb luck"?

I still say it's genetics. Our life path is written out in our D.N.A.

The point of living a healthy livestyle is: To make the most of whatever genes we have. Genes can be turned on or off by lifestyle choices. It must be sad for those who go around thinking we are at the mercy of our genes.

Stay safe in the event of tornados caused by that storm Debby.
Take care.............seriously.

Oh, okay.

p.s. I also think a jolly , accepting personality , not an uptight worrisome over every little morsel of food type, will help one live longer......plus being kind to people.......and meditating or praying every day to still the mind......is the right path.

Yes, people shouldn't get uptight and feel threatened when science indicates that lifestyle does make a difference in health and longevity.

If everyone was exactly the same, how boring would it be?

Translation: Eat junk food in moderation; everyone has a different idea of what moderation means, so everyone will be happy with their different amounts of various junk foods.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by senior citizen

Not true to the last sentence. Mainly I was discussing chemicals and pharmaceuticals, etc. .............at least that is how I started out.......
one thing did lead to another.

The athletic types I mentioned were doctors and high powered corporate owners (engineers)........two of these men cycled all over Europe plus within the U.S.........they were extremely thin and were vegans.
They ate brown rice, veggies, no oil......seeds and nuts, natural stuff.
I doubt if they ate a lot of baked goods as their wives did not bake; if they did it would be some healthy bread.

When you say "high powered corporate owners" who "cycled all over Europe" you're proving my point. They sound like "type A" personalities who overdo everything. Cycling all over Europe and the U.S. is not necessarily a good thing. Over exercising is an unhealthy addiction for some people.

I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about HEALTHY people who did everything RIGHT and still died of cancer. I do believe it was in their genetics. They were non smokers and from what I could tell, at our parties, etc. or dinner, non drinkers.

Over exercising is not my idea of doing everything "RIGHT". Who ever said it was? They tested the limits of their endurance and the result was harmful. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and they found their weakness. Over exercising can raise cortisol levels in the blood and increase oxidative stress.

It's a complicated subject for sure.

I agree. But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

[lightworker888]

Just came across this article that I thought had an interesting point regarding this discussion. It relates to the problems with really getting the facts "straight" and how conclusions from trials are often skewed and misleading. I thought it was worth reading if you are interested in this dietary discussion.

I am really pleased with Publix availability of grass-fed beef. The store seems to be really doing its best to make "good" food available for those who are interested in having it. Wish Canada had a publix chain. We have to search out the conscientious farmers, who fortunately for us are quite available in our area.

We have lots of Mennonite farmers at the market and a local long-horned beef farmer who sells delicious fillets @ $12 a pound from a freezer in his garage and all the other cuts @$5. We just finished a fabulous asparagus season which had us eating just asparagus and salad for dinner! Wish the local season was longer than 3 weeks.

Can Red Meat be Part of a Healthy Diet?

LW888

[jimbo2012]

Do U really think he is as qualified as other doctors who have done their own research on the effects of diet and your health, he is an osteopathic physician, also known as a DO.

He is an entrepreneur first, selling hundreds of products, a red flag IMO.

His article was not his own it is a collage of others some 5 years old here, he himself does no research or clinical trials of any kind.

"Mercola has received two warnings from the FDA for marketing nutritional products in a manner which violated the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act".

Here's an article on Quackwatch about him.


You decide who in the medical field you wish to follow.

Your mileage may vary.

[lightworker888]

I guess if Quackwatch is your criteria, we definitely move in and see the world through very different lenses and resonate with very different things. For me science isn't my main criteria and neither is logic as I have found so many situations that defy both. That being said, each person must decide for him/herself and use whatever criteria feels right for him/her. And I don't believe that there is a one size fits all but rather versions of many, that at different points in a journey, will feel right. And probably each diet has been OK, at some point, for some people, for some time, for some reason. And I'm not the one to tell anyone what will work for them at this point in their journey. I have enough challenge choosing what works for me and I just thought that my comments might resonate with some people and above all I choose moderation in all things.

I think I have said enough on this subject so I'll free up the soapbox.

LW888

[pooh]

Originally Posted by lightworker888

I guess if Quackwatch is your criteria, we definitely move in and see the world through very different lenses and resonate with very different things. For me science isn't my main criteria and neither is logic as I have found so many situations that defy both. That being said, each person must decide for him/herself and use whatever criteria feels right for him/her. And I don't believe that there is a one size fits all but rather versions of many, that at different points in a journey, will feel right. And probably each diet has been OK, at some point, for some people, for some time, for some reason. And I'm not the one to tell anyone what will work for them at this point in their journey. I have enough challenge choosing what works for me and I just thought that my comments might resonate with some people and above all I choose moderation in all things.

I think I have said enough on this subject so I'll free up the soapbox.

LW888

I've enjoyed your calm, well thought out response LW. Any study reported, whether in the news, in a book, can, and is most likely flawed. Researchers emphasize what THEY want to be shown. Forks Over Knives is constantly brought up as something we should all watch. In this documentary, the facts can be misleading in instances. Science is my thing, LW......and so far, no diet is perfect. Until that perfect eating plan is shown, we must all do what is best for each of us, as you've suggested. NOTHING in this world is absolute....

[jimbo2012]

Not my criteria at all, that site just summarized his credentials as of 2012.

That info may resonate with some people.

He's a entrepreneur first than a (doctor) DO

There is more than one way to accomplish being healthy, but the theme of this thread is vegan and vegetarian.

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by pooh

Forks Over Knives is constantly brought up as something we should all watch. In this documentary, the facts can be misleading in instances.

U know that someone would ask which facts do U think R misleading?

[lightworker888]

Absolutely, Pooh!

[pooh]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

U know that someone would ask which facts do U think R misleading?

Quick response ..... "studies" did not include other groups of people living in spite of diets higher in fats, meats, than considered ideal ..... African tribes ingesting lots of meat, Artic peoples eating lots of fat.

Recognize please that I am not suggesting that plant foods don't have a place in a good diet and good health. Minimizing the amount of sugar, saturated fat and over eating will do lots to improve how we feel and hopefully, how well we age. Making broad statements and correlations based on relatively little data doesn't make it absolute fact, in this case and in many other scientific research endeavors.
I probably could give you more if you like, but won't tonight. We're heading home from a short visit to Chicago and I don't have the energy to argue. Quick, someone give me a carrot.....

Nite, Jimbo.

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by lightworker888

Just came across this article that I thought had an interesting point regarding this discussion. It relates to the problems with really getting the facts "straight" and how conclusions from trials are often skewed and misleading. I thought it was worth reading if you are interested in this dietary discussion.

I am really pleased with Publix availability of grass-fed beef. The store seems to be really doing its best to make "good" food available for those who are interested in having it. Wish Canada had a publix chain. We have to search out the conscientious farmers, who fortunately for us are quite available in our area.

We have lots of Mennonite farmers at the market and a local long-horned beef farmer who sells delicious fillets @ $12 a pound from a freezer in his garage and all the other cuts @$5. We just finished a fabulous asparagus season which had us eating just asparagus and salad for dinner! Wish the local season was longer than 3 weeks.

Can Red Meat be Part of a Healthy Diet?

LW888

We have Mennonites up this way as well......and they do try to present the purest foods, baked goods, meats, veggies, etc.

There is a distinct difference in the free range chickens and grass fed beef.

Below, I'm quoting something from your hyperlink above.

I've experienced it myself firsthand and was given erroneous facts by the lady butcher, only to be told the truth, believe it or not, by the male butcher at Price Chopper.

When I mentioned to her, as she was putting new meat into the supermarket cases, that the packages of kielbasi looked BLACK, she told me it was a specialty item. I mentioned that my husband was Polish and I'd never heard of black kielbasi before, etc...........I told her it looked rotten. She went into the back; the head butcher then said that the packages must have been punctured to allow the gas to escape, turning it black........yuck. Makes one wonder what they do to other meats that turn black or go bad.

I remember thinking that I felt sorry for someone who was either color blind or very elderly with poor eyesight.......that early in the morning, when Price Chopper shuts off most of their lighting, a person could be duped into buying rotten meat. They also shut off their freezers at night or raise them to the HIGHEST level to save electricity........not so good for the quality of the food we purchase.

Lately, the past number of years , we buy very little meat from our local supermarkets.......preferring the irradiated and flash frozen beef from Omaha Steaks or Kansas City Steaks. We don't eat that much meat to begin with......so better to have it flash frozen right after slaughter than wonder how long it's been sitting around the supermarket...........

People forget that their grandparents and great grandparents ate more of the peasant foods.......which are now again in vogue......such as delicious lentils with rice, lentil soup, pasta fagioli (beans and pasta), home made pea soup (need a ham bone for the best flavor).......and on and on.

They didn't even realize they were eating "health foods" back then.
As a kid, spinach or escarole in the bean soup was a common thing.
I loved spinach, etc. and all greens. Try to give your grandkids that today. But, they all love salsa, which is now considered a vegetable.
Go figure.

Decayed Meat Treated with Carbon Monoxide to Make it Look Fresh...

Additionally, many of the methods employed to make food "safer" actually deepen rather than solve them. Take so-called atmospheric packaging, for example. You might not be aware that more than 70 percent of all beef and chicken in the United States, Canada and other countries is treated with poisonous carbon monoxide gas, which can make seriously decayed meat look fresh for weeks!
Although carbon monoxide is a gas that can be fatal when inhaled, the meat industry insists that it is not harmful to human health when ingested via atmospheric packaging, which utilizes carbon monoxide gas to extend the shelf life and resist spoilage. Whatever the truth of that may be, eating spoiled meat is not going to do your health any favors...
According to Currentxi :

"C. perfringens bacteria, the third-most-common cause of food-borne illness, has been proven to grow on what is considered fresh meat ... about half of the fresh meat products [tested for these bacteria] are positive despite them being within the expiry period. One hundred percent of ... these cases come from packagers who adopted atmospheric packaging methods such as the use of carbon monoxide gas".

[jimbo2012]

Do you know what’s really in that beef you’re eating with so much delight? It’s definitely not your normal red meat what I’m talking about, it’s something way more than that – it’s called ‘pink slime’!

ABC News released a shocking story about a disgusting substance being incorporated in about 70% of ground beef sold in the U.S. This dangerous substance called Pink slime is known to contain ammonia and was used as an ingredient for dog food and cooking oil sometime back. Ammonia is used in it to remove its side effects and bacteria on humans.

Pink Slime In 70% Of Ground Beef In U.S. - YouTube


Pink Slime: When In Doubt, Do Not Eat!

From the ground beef you buy at the grocery store, to the hamburger you’re eating at your favorite restaurant, all of it contains at least a little bit of pink slime. And up until now, you probably didn’t even know because there is absolutely no labeling on the meat’s packaging indicating so.
Manufacturers, food processors, caterers, and have meat scraps after trimming and shaping their cuts. They’ve devised some ways to skirt around the issue of unused cuts of meat by using meat glue to bind the disparate snippets back together again.
• Makes “steaks” out of glued together meat chunks
• Makes imitation crab meat, chicken nuggets, and fish balls
• Creates reconstituted steaks, fillets, roasts, and cutlets

Restaurants are where you are most likely to consume meat glue, there are no laws requiring chefs to disclose the use of 'meat glue', a kitchen trick.

According to cattle rancher Nigel Tudor, the expensive “fillet steaks” sold in many American food stores are actually made up of scraps of beef held together by the enzymetransglutaminase. Known in the industry as “meat glue,” this white powder is derived from the clotting agents in pigs’ and cows’ blood.

Major pizza chains buy the additive for toppings including pepperoni, Italian sausage, bacon crumble and salami, Supermarket-brand roasts, sausages, kabobs, hams, poultry pieces, pork, beef and many high-end-appearing cuts of beef and pork contain it as well.

[graciegirl]

I think that pink slime is a very yucky name and I think it was invented to sell stories....in part. I read that it is meat, a derivitive, really, and not harmful to consume. It sure gave me pause. Who wants to eat anything called pink slime????

We used egg growing up to make our meat balls and salmon patties and meat loaf "stick together". I guess it could be called meat glue. Broth of any kind started out as blood, extremely distasteful to dwell on.

There are those who think meat is harmful to consume. I think too much meat in your overall diet isn't too good for you.Especially the fat part.

Something not mentioned often, but a question asked by oncologists is how much meat do you consume from an open grill. Smoke from burnt grease is a carcinogen.

All things in moderation.

bump

[jimbo2012]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

All things in moderation.

Yes, a moderate amount of disease.

Yes, a moderate amount of plaque in your arteries.

Yes, a moderate amount of diabetes.

Yes, a moderate amount of stents.

Yes, a moderate amount of cancer.

Yes, a moderate amount of meds.

Yes, a moderate amount of being over weight.

Yes, a moderate amount of pink slime.

Yes, a moderate amount of ..........

As of March These are among the stores that sell store-ground meat with pink slime, according to The Daily:

Target
BJ’s
Hy-Vee
Walmart
Albertsons
Stop & Shop
Zaycon Foods

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by jimbo2012

Do you know what’s really in that beef you’re eating with so much delight? It’s definitely not your normal red meat what I’m talking about, it’s something way more than that – it’s called ‘pink slime’!

ABC News released a shocking story about a disgusting substance being incorporated in about 70% of ground beef sold in the U.S. This dangerous substance called Pink slime is known to contain ammonia and was used as an ingredient for dog food and cooking oil sometime back. Ammonia is used in it to remove its side effects and bacteria on humans.

Pink Slime In 70% Of Ground Beef In U.S. - YouTube


Pink Slime: When In Doubt, Do Not Eat!

From the ground beef you buy at the grocery store, to the hamburger you’re eating at your favorite restaurant, all of it contains at least a little bit of pink slime. And up until now, you probably didn’t even know because there is absolutely no labeling on the meat’s packaging indicating so.
Manufacturers, food processors, caterers, and have meat scraps after trimming and shaping their cuts. They’ve devised some ways to skirt around the issue of unused cuts of meat by using meat glue to bind the disparate snippets back together again.
• Makes “steaks” out of glued together meat chunks
• Makes imitation crab meat, chicken nuggets, and fish balls
• Creates reconstituted steaks, fillets, roasts, and cutlets

Restaurants are where you are most likely to consume meat glue, there are no laws requiring chefs to disclose the use of 'meat glue', a kitchen trick.

According to cattle rancher Nigel Tudor, the expensive “fillet steaks” sold in many American food stores are actually made up of scraps of beef held together by the enzymetransglutaminase. Known in the industry as “meat glue,” this white powder is derived from the clotting agents in pigs’ and cows’ blood.

Major pizza chains buy the additive for toppings including pepperoni, Italian sausage, bacon crumble and salami, Supermarket-brand roasts, sausages, kabobs, hams, poultry pieces, pork, beef and many high-end-appearing cuts of beef and pork contain it as well.

You are definitely correct regarding the restaurants (most use pre processed foods and truthfully, one can cook better at home).....and you are also correct about the processed meats and stuff on pizza, in cold cuts, etc. However, now there are great veggie and artisan pizzas where you can opt out of the pepperoni as the one and only topping.
We just had some that didn't even have the typical cheese, just a bit of feta....spinach, garlic, onions...peppers, etc. Nice thin crust. Even these pizza places are "changing" to "go with the flow" of consumers' ever changing dietary preferences.

As others have said........all things in moderation.

Our supermarket claims they now have removed all pink slime.
People were in an uproar.......so the stores had no choice.

Omaha Steaks tells me that THEY HAVE NO PINK SLIME in their angus burgers or any of their burgers........they say they are totally made from the trimmings of their steaks........they are known for their filet mignons and other top steaks. Personally, I couldn't care if I never had a steak again.........but we do have family members who enjoy them.

When one is living alone like a hermit with no one to cook for but themselves.........then they can eat whatever they choose.

However, when they live with a partner or have a family, or a family that visits them....friends that visit them...........then they have to accomodate everyone's tastes...........all of us have had to be flexible with various family and friends' food preferences in the past possibly twenty years........prior to that, people just ate and had a good time.

It wasn't until the past two decades or so that people began comparing their cholesterol, their blood sugar levels, etc. and opting out of various foods........which they are all free to do. I can't remember any of my dad's sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles saying, "No thank you to that canoli"...."Better stay away from that meatball"......."I'm going to pass on that lasagna"..........they just ate it. These people all lived into their 90's...........95, 97.......many in their late 80's, 86, etc. 87. You have to go sometime. Now, we have to be so careful to honor everyone's dietary needs. I have no problem doing that in my home....however, it does get expensive when you have to make a myriad of different "dishes" in order to please everyone's health needs.

Maybe this is why dining out in a restaurant, choosing from a menu, rather than the "party giver" being responsible for choosing multiple options for the multiple guests invited.......really. It gets expensive.

However, I doubt if EVERYONE would want to eat sprouts and beans and brown rice for a "party" or a "wedding" or a "4th of July celebration.
We always offer fruit platters, veggie platters, green salads, etc. in additon to poultry, seafood and beef, pork ribs, etc. No one forces anyone to eat anything.........and everyone has a good time.

Last year we had visitors from the Netherlands. Their children LOVED the caprese salad.....which is simply large sliced beefsteak tomatoes, layered in a circle with Buffalo mozarella slices...fresh basil leaves and drizzled if they wish with Balsamic vinegar.......French baguette slices served alongside..........(or italian bread)......the vegetarians in the group devoured the Caprese Salad, making little sandwiches of them.....these were adults. The little kids love the RAW VEGGIES.....but they have to have ranch dip. Everyone loves the tropical fruit platters......I'd say everyone we know "eats in moderation" but still enjoys a burger or hot dog on the grill..........especially barbecued ribs on the grill.........and we do not grill that often to be worried about carcinogens up here.

Thankfully, we don't have smoke stack industries nor lots of car and truck exhaust fumes......which would be more worrisome than grilling a few times a summer.

For lunch, I'm making hubby a big green tossed salad with red wine vinegar / olive oil (lots of crunchy veggies) plus will saute a heap of slivered fresh GARLIC in olive oil to toss with boiled angel hair pasta.
I like the kind that comes in "nests".

This dish, made with linguini, is what the streetwalkers would prepare when they came in late at night (in Italy).........so I've read.

If you are a garlic lover, it's yummy..........and meatless. Just don't drown it in olive oil.....just a light glistening coat.......but lots of sauteed garlic. I add black pepper, a touch of salt and some dried basil. Garlic has sulphur in it and is considered by many to have the power to kill bacteria , etc. Raw garlic also works when you have the first inkling of a cold or sore throat. It just zaps it away.

Garlic also keeps the vampires away.