[ithos]

Originally Posted by frayedends

I reversed my Type 2 pre-diabetes. I corrected my hypertension. I corrected my high cholesterol. All from keto/carnivore diet. When life expectency was 33 they didn't die from heart disease. They got eaten by lions and died from infections, or other non cardiac events.

Your anecdotal claim is almost worthless just like every other person who espouses an opinion about a particular diet. That is why they do studies.

From the Journal of Cardiovascular Development and Disease
To conclude that animal-product-rich diets are healthy or efficacious in treating CVD would be erroneous based on the aforementioned literature. Additionally, animal-product-rich diets tend to impair vascular function [43,44], increase LDL cholesterol and inflammation compared to an isocaloric unprocessed high-carbohydrate diet [45], and reduce myocardial blood flow compared to a plant-based diet, which had the opposite effect [46]. The Impacts of Animal-Based Diets in Cardiovascular Disease Development: A Cellular and Physiological Overview - PMC

There are truckloads of research validating the long term benefit of whole food plant based diets. Virtually none for the carnivore diet other than short term . But perhaps you can prove me wrong by going to pubmed.gov and finding it.

Watch this debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDYl4zHmAg where Nina Teicholz (author of The Big Fat Surprise) is destroyed by research. She has virtually no valid credible scientific studies to back it up, just like Atkins.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You mean you are really wearing a mask? Fair enough, judgement of stupid withheld 😂😂😂

Actually, I would add a comment that maybe a young person with ZERO debilitating conditions need not wear a mask in public. But, for older people that are not perfectly healthy (that want to continue living) they may choose to wear a mask when indoors around a crowd. On an aircraft with recirculating air seems to be especially dangerous, and boat cruises. And Florida is particularly bad because people from up north coming here can be carrying illness. And, personally, I think that if 80% of the people had gotten the last shot instead of a FRUSTRATINGLY low of 5%, then we might have finished off Covid. Instead, for all we know, it could change to a stronger variety. I wonder if other countries had greater than the US's 5% buy-in to receiving the latest shot?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

This Covid thing is awesome. I haven't heard of a case of the Flu, in over 3 years.

Actually, there was less flu in past 3 years because people avoided large indoor groups so as NOT to get Covid. And Covid killed off a lot of the people that did NOT believe in ANY shots

[SHIBUMI]

AMEN, sorry for your loss.........enough said

Originally Posted by Whitley

Rich, my business partner died at 58. Never had a heart issue prior to the covid shots and every booster that came out. He was fanatical about being first in line to get every shot available. Cardiologist saw some previously undiagnosed issue and scheduled him for an outpatient test. His wife was out of state so I went with him to the hosp. He never came out. Not alive. Saying "stay safe avoid the shot" would be as dishonest as saying "stay safe everyone get the shot". Take your specific variables into account and make your own choice.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Actually, I would add a comment that maybe a young person with ZERO debilitating conditions need not wear a mask in public. But, for older people that are not perfectly healthy (that want to continue living) they may choose to wear a mask when indoors around a crowd. On an aircraft with recirculating air seems to be especially dangerous, and boat cruises. And Florida is particularly bad because people from up north coming here can be carrying illness. And, personally, I think that if 80% of the people had gotten the last shot instead of a FRUSTRATINGLY low of 5%, then we might have finished off Covid. Instead, for all we know, it could change to a stronger variety. I wonder if other countries had greater than the US's 5% buy-in to receiving the latest shot?

You're 100% correct about the types of people and the locations that would require protection. Unfortunately, the routine masks provide just about zero protection. A good N95 with the proper fit would help, but even that is far from 100% protection

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by bsloan1960

Huh? We know 2 people who died. They were on vents for a month then suffocated. I worked in a hospital and watched many die. I've cared for patients with every outbreak of the Flu and a few would die- but Covid killed millions. Do you even understand that you have NO real world experience to base your opinion on? It is an opinion only spun up in the web of your head by allowing in only information that suited your agenda. There is a real world out there, with people who are on the front lines. They are the ones who have the facts- not conspiracy theorist waving signs. What would it hurt to ask for facts from people who work hands on with this disease? Why is it so important to you to believe and tell a lie?

Nice to see some raw truth-telling going on here in this forum.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Harold.wiser

How about those Lions?!

Is that a reference about those LIONS in the ancient Roman stadiums? They win a lot.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Cindyd

Yes, people died of covid, but let's look at data. As a percentage of pop, Covid deaths were .03% of US population. Under age 40, as a percent of pop under 40, covid deaths were 0%. Yet, we locked kids out of schools for months/years? Healthy pro0le, who obviously had immunity, lost their jobs? Yes, every life is precious, but it's important to look at facts vs hysteria.

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023 | Statista

The graph said that 1600 children died, not ZERO. And I think the problem is that they are STILL dying. They are somebodies grandchildren!

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Well of course you did! How do you know if you have Covid if you do not get tested? Also it is recommended to start treatment as early as possible for it to be most effective. So you did the most logical thing. Now for people who do not believe in Covid or think it was made up by big Pharma in the first place, I understand that they can’t see why you did it.

What do people get out of rallying against fictional views? I have seen no one say they do not believe in covid. I have never seen anyone say the original covid was created by big pharma. Such an attitude is worse tham jousting with windmills. It is like jousting at unicorns. They do not exist.

[jimjamuser]

Ignoring the Covid problem has NOT make it go away. So, what are we going to do, get 5% of the US population to take their shots FOREVER or will we SOMEDAY wake up and listen to medical experts and make it go away by universal shots?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Susan1717

I have life long friends who have been heading a medical research in CA after a career heading a chicago hospital. They warned all their personal friends to walk out of a hospital at all cost if they tried to put you on a ventilator. They knew way ahead this was a deadly ending. My heart goes out to all that lost loved ones on ventilators. The medical leaders who knew were threatened with losing their funding and ruined careers if went public. I have never had a flu shot and will never get a vaccine. It’s been 20+ years since I’ve had the flu. Maybe I’m lucky and focus on my immune system? I had Covid once and quickly got on ivermectin before they made it impossible to get. All I can say is, for me, it worked like a charm and my symptoms were gone in 5 days. I feel strongly the world did more damage by shutting things down. Both economically, mentally, and all the people that died who were not allowed medical care for other things that were needed.

Interesting, I feel 180 degrees different than that.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I was going to pass, but there is so much misinformation in that post that I feel compelled to set the record straight.

First of all, your "lifelong friends who have been heading medical research in CA after a career heading a Chicago hospital." cannot possibly believe what was posted about mechanical ventilation. Why invent it in the first place? And nobody's life was ever saved by ventilatory support? Everyone put on a respirator dies??? What a load of nonsense. Now, in all fairness, once a person is sick enough to require a ventilator, their prognosis has taken a nosedive anyway. End stage type 2 COPD (so called blue bloaters) often survive multiple intubations, type 1 (pink puffers) almost always succumb. Bottom line, survivability of a period of mechanical ventilation is highly dependent on the reason for intubation and the underlying condition of the patient. IT IS FAR FROM 100% FATAL.

Second, COVID symptoms that "were gone in 5 days" probably had nothing to do with the snake oil (I mean ivermectin) that was taken, they most likely would have resolved on their own like most cases of COVID.

Thirdly, go ahead and don't take any vaccines. But realize you are getting the same preventative medical care for infectious disease as the residents of Europe circa 1342.

Lastly, I have to agree that shutting down the world economies was detrimental and far from the solution. Let's hope our officials never lead us down that road again.

It is hard to prove a negative, but for all we know shutting down various things and requiring masks MAY HAVE save 200,000 Americans. It certainly saved some.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Interesting, I feel 180 degrees different than that.

And that's ok.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

It is hard to prove a negative, but for all we know shutting down various things and requiring masks MAY HAVE save 200,000 Americans. It certainly saved some.

Maybe. The usual paper masks probably did next to nothing.

There was an episode of the Netflix series "The Crown" in which smog was actually killing people in about 1953. The British government essentially declared a "mask mandate" for its citizens. In one scene, a member of the cabinet came into a meeting wearing a mask, and the prime minister told him "Take that ridiculous thing off, it does nothing---we only told the people to wear one so it looked like we were doing something about the smog"

Shutting things down probably had an indirect beneficial effect. The most effective mitigation of the pandemic prior to vaccines was social distancing of 6 feet or more---a closed venue accomplishes that, although with some overkill and deleterious economic impacts.

Hard to pin down a number of "lives saved" by these measures----after all, we have no idea of how many people died of Covid as opposed to with Covid.

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by ithos

Your anecdotal claim is almost worthless just like every other person who espouses an opinion about a particular diet. That is why they do studies.

From the Journal of Cardiovascular Development and Disease
To conclude that animal-product-rich diets are healthy or efficacious in treating CVD would be erroneous based on the aforementioned literature. Additionally, animal-product-rich diets tend to impair vascular function [43,44], increase LDL cholesterol and inflammation compared to an isocaloric unprocessed high-carbohydrate diet [45], and reduce myocardial blood flow compared to a plant-based diet, which had the opposite effect [46]. The Impacts of Animal-Based Diets in Cardiovascular Disease Development: A Cellular and Physiological Overview - PMC

There are truckloads of research validating the long term benefit of whole food plant based diets. Virtually none for the carnivore diet other than short term . But perhaps you can prove me wrong by going to pubmed.gov and finding it.

Watch this debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDYl4zHmAg where Nina Teicholz (author of The Big Fat Surprise) is destroyed by research. She has virtually no valid credible scientific studies to back it up, just like Atkins.

My anecdotal evidence and everyone one else doing the diet. These studies like the one you linked always include people continuing to eat a carb loaded diet. But you do you. I fixed all my issues doing keto. I am doing carnivore sort of an elimination diet to figure out some other issues. I was keto when my issues disappeared in like 2 months. I’ve yet to see one person say they did keto or carnivore and had worse issues.

Pubmed sure. See who funds those studies. Usually the sugar industry. As for vegetarian diet, those folks either look deathly skinny and sick (if they stick to Whole Foods) or look morbidly obese because of carbs and sugar. ETA: the article you linked talks about blue zones. That has been shown to be total bunk based on cherry picked data.

I think we can both agree on that Whole Foods (sorry my phone capitalizes that as if they weren’t words before they were a store) with low carbs, low sugar, and low processed foods is the way to go.