[gamby]

This is my last word on this topic,


Death, and What Happens When We Die,

The Bible makes it clear that God did not originally intend for humans to die. He created the first human pair Adam and Eve, placed them in an earthly paradise called Eden, and instructed them to have children and extend their Paradise home earth wide. They would die only if they disobeyed his instructions.—Genesis 1:28; 2:15-17.
Lacking appreciation for God’s kindness, Adam and Eve did disobey and were made to pay the prescribed penalty. “You [will] return to the ground,” God told Adam, “for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Before his creation Adam did not exist; he was dust. And for his disobedience, or sin, Adam was sentenced to return to dust, to a state of nonexistence.
Death is thus an absence of life. The Bible draws the contrast: “The wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life.” (Romans 6:23) Showing that death is a state of total unconsciousness, the Bible says: “For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) When a person dies, the Bible explains: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”—Psalm 146:3,*4.



2 Peter 3:13

But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.


Revelation 21:4

And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

[kittygilchrist]

Gamby, what about "this day you shall be with me in paradise?" Jesus
"I am persuaded that neither life nor death nor principalities nor powers etc. can separate us from the love of Christ?" Paul
"I will never leave you nor forsake you" jesus.

Ecclesiastes is about questionings of what life means and considerations and meditations about the meaning of life.
Framing one's beliefs by pointing to one verse ignores that the book is chock-full of the author discovering the errors of his thinking and the author tracks the progression of his beliefs from the beginning to the end of Ecclesiastes.

For example, contrast the verse you quoted with Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto to God who gave it"

[Villages PL]

It seems that the Bible is open to interpretation. One sees things one way and another sees the opposite. If everyone saw everything in the same way, wouldn't there be just one religion for the whole world?

Where did the Quran come from? Is that not the word of God?

What about the Jewish faith and their belief that Christ was just a philosopher and not the son of God? Is that incorrect?

Could it be that the Bible was simply great fiction written by man and not at all inspired by God? Although, perhaps it was inspired by the thought that there might be a God.

[KeepingItReal]

1 Corinthians Chapter 15


13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Where did the Quran come from? Is that not the word of God?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtrtxW_64PU

[nitakk]

If the original question was why do we get old and die- because that's the way it is! Keep it simple, people. It has nothing to do with religion, it's just that things come into being, age and die. Happens to everybody and every thing. Time to enjoy what life you have left!

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

You're welcome and thanks for the link. I read the whole thing; it was interesting. It said oxidative stress is caused by oxidants and not long ago I read that iron is a potent oxidant. Red meat is a source of iron so maybe that's one reason why vegans and vegetarians, like seventh day Adventists, live so much longer. Their average life expectancy is 88.

Glycation was mentioned too and the article seems to suggest that calorie restriction is something we can do about it. We can restrict calories by avoiding high-calorie processed foods.

Dr. Dean Ornish, along with Dr. Blackburn did a study that showed we can lengthen telomeres by eating a healthy vegan diet, moderate exercise and stress reduction. This lifestyle increases the enzyme telomerase and it's what allows telomeres to lengthen. It helps DNA to repair itself. So we can stay younger by living a healthy lifestyle.

Villages PL: I find the studies done by experts very confusing and contradicting. Iron creates an oxidative reaction but iron is essential to the blood. Many narratives are circulating that meat protein is essential especially for people over the age of 65. The bigger danger to the body is inflamation .

I don't believe a doctor would place every patient he/she had on a vegan diet because each person health age and needs vary. Such things as ability to absorb nutrients they need, the effect of fiber on their digestive system their need for iron because perhaps they are anemic, etc. The bigger concern is a person's ability to creating tasting and nutrient needed meals . I mean you just don't buy frozen vegetables and mix them around
i could be wrong about all this but based on the Restaurant Discussion thread it doesn't appear many villagers are intrigued by a vegan diet

As to eternal life far too complicated and taxing for me.

[Shimpy]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Could it be that the Bible was simply great fiction written by man and not at all inspired by God? Although, perhaps it was inspired by the thought that there might be a God.

"The bible is the word or God. How do we know this? Because the bible said so. " You got to remember the bible was written when science didn't exist and every unexplained thing was contributed to a God. Later they downsized to only one God. Have you ever seen the demonstration of a story told to a person at the head of the line then passed down the line to the 10th person? The last persons story didn't even closely resemble the original. Imagine now passing it on for 2000 years and through untold number of languages.
Even today with our high tech media they report a story that many times has so many mistakes to make the whole story inaccurate 30 minutes later.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Villages PL: I find the studies done by experts very confusing and contradicting. Iron creates an oxidative reaction but iron is essential to the blood. Many narratives are circulating that meat protein is essential especially for people over the age of 65. The bigger danger to the body is inflamation .

I don't believe a doctor would place every patient he/she had on a vegan diet because each person health age and needs vary. Such things as ability to absorb nutrients they need, the effect of fiber on their digestive system their need for iron because perhaps they are anemic, etc. The bigger concern is a person's ability to creating tasting and nutrient needed meals . I mean you just don't buy frozen vegetables and mix them around
i could be wrong about all this but based on the Restaurant Discussion thread it doesn't appear many villagers are intrigued by a vegan diet

As to eternal life far too complicated and taxing for me.

rubicon, yes, iron is essential but can be obtained from vegetables and one thing about iron is that some of it gets recycled in the body. So, most of us don't need a big new supply every day. Of course there may always be exceptions. I never rule out exceptions although I have been accused of it many times. I never say everyone must do this or that.

To restate it another way: Iron is essential but excess iron may be harmful. If a doctor says someone needs more iron based on a blood test, then they probably do and should follow the doctors advice.

People over 65 need more meat protein? Let me give that some thought; perhaps some people do need it. It might be a good subject for a new thread. I need some time on that one.

[kittygilchrist]

.... Eternal life is free. You can't get from vegetables.
I am sad for those who have no faith... And very very grateful for the most precious gift I have ever received.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

rubicon, yes, iron is essential but can be obtained from vegetables and one thing about iron is that some of it gets recycled in the body. So, most of us don't need a big new supply every day. Of course there may always be exceptions. I never rule out exceptions although I have been accused of it many times. I never say everyone must do this or that.

To restate it another way: Iron is essential but excess iron may be harmful. If a doctor says someone needs more iron based on a blood test, then they probably do and should follow the doctors advice.

People over 65 need more meat protein? Let me give that some thought; perhaps some people do need it. It might be a good subject for a new thread. I need some time on that one.

Research...yum, good stuff
Nutrition Journal | Full text | Diet, iron biomarkers and oxidative stress in a representative sample of Mediterranean population

[KeepingItReal]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

.... Eternal life is free. You can't get from vegetables.
I am sad for those who have no faith... And very very grateful for the most precious gift I have ever received.

Could not agree with you more....... I cannot not imagine being without the personal knowledge of having a better long home waiting.

[tippyclubb]

Originally Posted by nitakk

If the original question was why do we get old and die- because that's the way it is! Keep it simple, people. It has nothing to do with religion, it's just that things come into being, age and die. Happens to everybody and every thing. Time to enjoy what life you have left!

Now this makes sense and I will not spend any of my precious time trying to figure out why we die. Instead, I'll spend the rest of my days having fun spending time with family and friends laughing and having a ball.

[2BNTV]

I love that VPL starts threads that have no concrete answers to. Like asking, "how many angels dance on the head of a pin".

Just remember. "Man Plans, GOD Laughs".

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by kittygilchrist

Research...yum, good stuff
Nutrition Journal | Full text | Diet, iron biomarkers and oxidative stress in a representative sample of Mediterranean population

After I posted to rubicon I realized I forgot to point out the difference between non-heme iron from plants and heme iron from animal protein but your link has it covered. I would just add this: The reason heme iron is so bad is that it accumulates and builds up in the body and can therefore reach toxic levels. On the other hand, you can never get too much non-heme iron from plant based foods. Your body will only keep what it needs for normal body functions.