[janmcn]

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

Sorry AJ but I agree to disagree.

Tom Brady refusing to co-operate with the investigation speaks volumns to me. If he was so innocent as some people claim, then why the cover-up? The person who performed the deflating of the footballs calls himself, "the deflator.

Again, this speaks of the culture of the Belechick reign of control. Never a warm fuzzy kind of guy and I like when a team is successful, so it's not jealousy on my part. I think they are and still talented enough to win championships without resorting to less than stellar characteristics of "getting an edge over the competition". It should be an even playing field for everyone.

This happens in other venues of sports like the little league stocking ineligible players, to win at all costs. A sad commentary on the character of our culture.

Wellington Mara could have made the Giants a dominate team but chose to share the revenues of the NFL equally as he seemed to want a good product and create equal opportunity for all teams. The NFL has a great product because of the equal opportunity to obtain talents for their teams.

Tom Brady will appeal the suspension and probably get it reduced. The penalties of draft picks and fines seem severe to me and I'll bet Roger Goodell will be dropped from Robert Kraft's Christmas card list as Kraft was a big supporter of Goodell, when he mishandled other players punishment.

Tom Brady refusing to cooperate? Based on what? This investigator does not have subpoena power, so he just wanted Brady to turn over his cell phone and text messages?

Brady is half of one of the highest profile couples in the country. How much would those emails and text messages fetch on the open market from the likes of the National Enquirer? Who would trust the NFL to protect their privacy in this day and age?

Patriots fans incensed with Tom Brady’s four-game suspension for his role in ‪#‎Deflategate‬ have taken to social media to express their disapproval, going so far as to suggest the Patriots not hang their banner for winning Super Bowl XLIX on Opening Night, but rather wait until No. 12’s first game back before raising it. Are you on board with ‪#‎NoBradyNoBanner‬

[DonH57]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan

Patriots fans incensed with Tom Brady’s four-game suspension for his role in ‪#‎Deflategate‬ have taken to social media to express their disapproval, going so far as to suggest the Patriots not hang their banner for winning Super Bowl XLIX on Opening Night, but rather wait until No. 12’s first game back before raising it. Are you on board with ‪#‎NoBradyNoBanner‬

I support that. Hang the banner only when the complete team is on the field. To do otherwise would reflect poor team spirit.

[John_W]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Tom Brady refusing to cooperate? Based on what? This investigator does not have subpoena power, so he just wanted Brady to turn over his cell phone and text messages?

Brady is half of one of the highest profile couples in the country. How much would those emails and text messages fetch on the open market from the likes of the National Enquirer? Who would trust the NFL to protect their privacy in this day and age?

From NBC Sports dated May 8, 2015:

Got incriminating info on your phone? Refuse to provide it. Know things that would tend to point toward guilt? Refuse to talk, or at least refuse to answer certain questions.

Some fans think that’s OK, spouting off principles that apply only in the context of criminal prosecutions. But the right to remain silent, the presumption of innocence, the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and all other Constitutional protections only matter when the outcome is prison or death.

For workplace investigations, the employer makes the rules. And when the employer expects cooperation, anything other than significant sanctions for failure to cooperate will invite others to refuse to cooperate.

During the various significant NFL investigations in recent years, cooperation has been consistent, and automatic. The Saints cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bounty case. The Ravens cooperated when the NFL was investigating the Ray Rice elevator video. The Dolphins cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bullying scandal — with the exception of trainer Kevin O’Neill, who expressed hostility to the investigation and later was fired.

Per multiple sources, Ravens employees automatically and without hesitation surrendered their cell phones for forensic examination that entailed a specific search for certain recipients and phrases. The procedure balanced the needs of the investigation with individual privacy rights.

Here, multiple individuals chose to extend their privacy rights so broadly that it interfered with their obligation to cooperate with their employer. Separate from whatever the Patriots did or didn’t do to the footballs, the failure to cooperate requires punishment, or others will do the same thing in the future.

[DonH57]

I guess I'm kind of lost on what would be of the NFL's interest on Tom's cell phone having to do with the investigation? Was it his personel or league issued? Doe's he use it during the games. Who would he be texting of interest? It wouldn't be the equipment managers as they are standing on the sidelines.

Originally Posted by John_W

Gee, such a short list, I guess you didn't have room to include Aaron Hernandez?

I can't defend Adrian Peterson or Ray Rice, but as far as Ray Lewis, there's a law in all 50 states that said a person has a right to defend themselves, you might of heard of it, it's called 'self defense'. If you had actually watched the Ray Lewis trial, broadcast live on Courtv, you would of learned that he and the other two men in his party was attacked by 5 men from Ohio. Those were the guys with the gun, the one that put 5 bullet holes in Ray's limo. It's all there for you to read on the internet, but like they say, never let a few facts get in the way of a good story, or reply.

As far as the Pats punishment. If in the beginning Tom has said, yes I like the ball a little less inflated and it's that wrong, then I must be guilty. He denied any knowledge, so they asked the equipment personnel and after reading their emails, they asked to see Tom's phone. Tom said no. Then they asked to just see a print out of the emails and his lawyer could bring them by. Tom said no. Then Robert Kraft said, when all of this is done and we're exeronated, I expect a full apology from the league. Then when Tom was visiting a college last week, he was asked his opinion of the report. He said, I haven't had time to read it all, but when I do, I'll make sure to let you know what I think.

This is just like every other event in history, the cover up is why the punishment doesn't fit the crime, and a total arrogant behavior from the top down is why New England is in this position. It's just that simple.

Touchy when it comes to Ray Lewis? He killed someone and the only reason he got away with it was he's a thug and others refused to testify against him out of fear.!! I didn't bring up Aaron Hernandez because he got what he deserved unlike Lewis!!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by John_W

From NBC Sports dated May 8, 2015:

Got incriminating info on your phone? Refuse to provide it. Know things that would tend to point toward guilt? Refuse to talk, or at least refuse to answer certain questions.

Some fans think that’s OK, spouting off principles that apply only in the context of criminal prosecutions. But the right to remain silent, the presumption of innocence, the requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and all other Constitutional protections only matter when the outcome is prison or death.

For workplace investigations, the employer makes the rules. And when the employer expects cooperation, anything other than significant sanctions for failure to cooperate will invite others to refuse to cooperate.

During the various significant NFL investigations in recent years, cooperation has been consistent, and automatic. The Saints cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bounty case. The Ravens cooperated when the NFL was investigating the Ray Rice elevator video. The Dolphins cooperated when the NFL was investigating the bullying scandal — with the exception of trainer Kevin O’Neill, who expressed hostility to the investigation and later was fired.

Per multiple sources, Ravens employees automatically and without hesitation surrendered their cell phones for forensic examination that entailed a specific search for certain recipients and phrases. The procedure balanced the needs of the investigation with individual privacy rights.

Here, multiple individuals chose to extend their privacy rights so broadly that it interfered with their obligation to cooperate with their employer. Separate from whatever the Patriots did or didn’t do to the footballs, the failure to cooperate requires punishment, or others will do the same thing in the future.

The one glaring problem with this theory is that the NFL is not the employer. The Patriots are Tom Brady's employer. And as far as I know it was only one individual (Brady) that refuse to surrender his cell phone.

Why should he participate and cooperate with this kangaroo court? Maybe they investigated the officials he might cooperate. In all of those other case cited there were serious laws broken and/or rules infractions causing bodily harm and even death to people. This involves a ball being under inflated. And don't forget. ten balls were between 12.4 and 12.49, one ball was around 11.5 and the twelfth ball was t 12.5 exactly. We're talking about a ball being under inflated by a pound as opposed to coaches offering financial reward to players who injure opposing players or people being killed.

The problem here is the officials not doing their job properly and teams having to go against the rules to protect themselves from the referees.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

According to the investigator, Brady cooperated fully.

Wells went on to add that Tom Brady cooperated fully with the investigation and answered every question. But he criticized the Pats for not allowing him to question one of the ball boys a second time.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

The one glaring problem with this theory is that the NFL is not the employer. The Patriots are Tom Brady's employer. And as far as I know it was only one individual (Brady) that refuse to surrender his cell phone.

Why should he participate and cooperate with this kangaroo court? Maybe they investigated the officials he might cooperate. In all of those other case cited there were serious laws broken and/or rules infractions causing bodily harm and even death to people. This involves a ball being under inflated. And don't forget. ten balls were between 12.4 and 12.49, one ball was around 11.5 and the twelfth ball was t 12.5 exactly. We're talking about a ball being under inflated by a pound as opposed to coaches offering financial reward to players who injure opposing players or people being killed.

The problem here is the officials not doing their job properly and teams having to go against the rules to protect themselves from the referees.

Where did you see those numbers? What I have read is that they only measured 11 Pats footballs at half time. They skipped the one Indy intercepted. From this link: Finally, the halftime PSI numbers are known | ProFootballTalk

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

On another report I also read that they measured 4 balls from the Colts. On one referees gauge 3 of the 4 were under inflated...

See: Wells Report: More Probable Than Not Colts Played With Under-Inflated Footballs

[DonH57]

So what is the minimum pressure a football may be to be legitimate and why officials pump them up to 16 knowing different quarterbacks like different feels of pressure? Is there a maximum?

"Quarterback A, let’s call him Aaron, admits he likes footballs that have more air pressure in them than the NFL allows and defies the officials to do anything about it. This story is repeated by a network’s No. 1 broadcast team as a funny little anecdote in the middle of a Patriots game, but no one can remember hearing it because it just wasn’t that important. Aaron remains an adored media darling and his coach and team are revered throughout the land.
Quarterback B, let’s say his name is Brad, confesses he shelled out $7,500 in bribes to doctor up the 100 footballs he used when he won a Super Bowl. The universe shrugs and the coach he won it with is the toast of the football broadcasting world.
Quarterback E, Eli, if you will, has equipment guys scour, scrub, soak, season, fold, spindle, mutilate and guard his ‘hand made’ footballs with their lives. He and his coach are the heroes of a nation for the two times they vanquished the evil menace known as the Patriots.
Quarterback P, Peyton, with the management team and Coach Fox committed 3 NFL rule violations: Denver team and coach fined almost 2 million for taping the 49ers' at Wembley Stadium 2010 and violating the NFL Salary Cap rule 2 times
Quarterback T, Tom, may or may not have started the AFC championship game with non-conforming footballs, but once they were removed from the game he went 12-for-14 for 155 yards, two touchdowns and 28 points in a half without them. For that, he and his coach are the cheatingest Cheatriots that ever cheated and there’s talk they should be killed with fire, their fields salted and their families banished from the land. The other Quarterback in that game, Andrew, also used deflated balls. No one seems to care.
Is it unfair? Is there a double or quadruple standard at work here? Absolutely. But like I said before, I’m over wanting the world to like the Patriots. Embrace the hate. Brady will win more games, more playoff games, throw more postseason touchdowns and hades-willing winning more Super Bowls than anyone else. When anyone accuses the Patriots of anything, it’s a scandal. When the rest of the world does it, there’s nothing to see here."

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by DonH57

So what is the minimum pressure a football may be to be legitimate and why officials pump them up to 16 knowing different quarterbacks like different feels of pressure? Is there a maximum?

The rules state that the balls must be between 12.5 and 13.5.

[TheVillageChicken]

As reported by The Onion, the NFL is launching a separate investigation into whether veteran tackle Vince Wilfork was properly inflated during the game.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

Where did you see those numbers? What I have read is that they only measured 11 Pats footballs at half time. They skipped the one Indy intercepted. From this link: Finally, the halftime PSI numbers are known | ProFootballTalk

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

On another report I also read that they measured 4 balls from the Colts. On one referees gauge 3 of the 4 were under inflated...

See: Wells Report: More Probable Than Not Colts Played With Under-Inflated Footballs

You're right. My numbers came from an erroneous report, by the NFL, that ten of the balls were only a "few ticks" under.

But there is a lot of interesting information in the link that you posted.

Further complicating matters for the NFL is the lack of clear evidence that the starting point for each ball was 12.5 PSI. Given that the NFL was aware of the issue before the game began, it’s stunning that a record of the measurements wasn’t made.

They don't know what the balls were at when the official OK'd them? Really?
They also don't know what kind of gauge, if any, the official used. And the NFL was aware of the problem before the game began and they allowed it to start without rechecking the balls? Does this sound like a frame up to anyone else?

the ball that had been intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson during the second quarter not included.

Are you kidding me? The ball that started the whole controversy wasn't measures? Any rational person would think that you would measure that ball first and if it were found to be under the minimum, only then would yo go and check the rest of them.

Regardless, the raw numbers aren’t nearly as bad as they were originally portrayed to be.
In the interests of fairness to everyone, that fact can’t be disregarded.

In other words, and as PFT reported at the time, 10 of the balls were closer to one pound under the minimum PSI than two.

The numbers show only one ball a full 2.0 PSI under — and that was based on a measurement that apparently happened after a different measurement showed that same ball at 1.6 PSI under.

It evidently wasn't enough under to suit their purposes so they remeasured that one ball. How can anyone trust this organization (the NFL) to do anything right?

This entire thing was cooked up by Harbaugh and Pagnano to embarrass the Patriots.

[scarecrow1]

Anyone that has played a sport with an inflated ball should know that finding the difference in a couple of ounces in an inflated volleyball, basketball, football etc. is almost negligible. Anyone with half a brain could tell you this. Then again look who we are dealing with a commissioner with no brains. Look how he handled the domestic violence issue. You mean to tell me someone that causes a felone assault gets off with less of a punishment than an undetectable under inflation of a ball? Think of this. If both teams used the same balls at game time this wouldn't have been an issue. Next we will see baseball teams using different baseballs......