[badkarma318]

Looking forward to Ichiro replacing that cheating scumbag Pete Rose as the true hit king.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by blueash

And completely unlike the APGA where there are no color barriers against non whites competing in the PGA, the Negro leagues existed for one reason only. Systemic racism. America refused to allow Black athletes to play in MLB. So don't tell me Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth got their records because of a meritocracy. They got them in part because it was a white man's league.

I don't know how well the Negro league players would have competed. I don't know if Ruth would have hit fewer home runs against teams with Black pitchers. But I do know that a team of white players only would fail in MLB now. It's possible Ruth couldn't hit a major league pitcher now much less Satchel Paige.

It amazes me that anyone would use a claim of unfairness in this situation. Moving down a slot on the all time slugging percentage is far less a crime against honoring baseball greatness than was the white bigotry and prejudice that made the Negro league ever exist. That was unfair. That was, to use your word, deplorable.

Do you have a problem with records from American League teams being counted against records of National League teams? They didn't play each other then except a few world series games which don't count in the record books. Are you sure that the leagues had equal talent thus Ruth's homers would have been the same if he played in the National league. I think you are comfortable mixing those separate league records together as all time baseball records.

All this does is accept a third major league into the record books. And you'd be hard pressed to claim that the standard of play in the Negro League was lower than in the American or National League.

A very cogent argument in favor of revising history. Can anyone cite other examples of history being revised? Start with works of fiction---Fahrenheit 451, then move on to 1984.

Was excluding an entire race from competing equally unfair---of course it was. Did it happen---yes---from the time the cavemen with clubs hated the cavemen who threw stones. Can we change that by changing the vocabulary or throwing money at it---NO. All we can do is learn from it and change.

Was the standard of play in any of the non-AL/NL leagues of the time lower? No idea, no way to prove it either way. Is the standard of play lower in the APGA---obviously, but as stated above, the minority golfers are not excluded from the PGA. Which then begs the question---why have an APGA at all? There already is a "minor league" golf tour---the Korn Ferry. There are tours lower than that---the "mini-tours". So why do we have a tour that is defined by race? Since there is no racial barrier to playing on any professional golf tour, there is plenty of opportunity for EARNING a spot based on MERIT. Are they enough highly skilled golfers to support even more "tours"----yes, but it should be defined by skill, not race, religion or ethnicity.

Finally, moving from racism to sexism, why not incorporate records from the AAPGBL(All-American Girls Professional Baseball League) into MLB. Tom Hanks and Penny Marshall could lead the charge. After all, while they were in a "league of their own", they were the major league during WWII

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Can we change that by changing the vocabulary or throwing money at it---NO.

I saw some people on tv saying that the families of Negro League players should now be entitled to reparations for the discrimination.

[swooner]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

How very woke.

Why not integrate Para-Olympic statistics into real Olympic records?

Or ... World Football League or Arena Football records into NFL statistics?

Everyone gets a trophy or the world's not fair.

Wow! You've got to be kidding! But you're not.

[Normal]

Well, if all of sudden my Babe Ruth baseball becomes worthless, I guess I’lll need to buy a Josh Gibson ball?

Maybe everything should have been handled a little differently like Jim Thorpe’s legacy.

It is about time, but what will change? One thing I know of that hasn’t, the whining of the future which had nothing to do with our past.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I saw some people on tv saying that the families of Negro League players should now be entitled to reparations for the discrimination.

Why is there consistently only 1 group, seeking to monetize their perceived persecution?

... asking for a friend.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Why is there consistently only 1 group, seeking to monetize their perceived persecution?

... asking for a friend.

Game revenue was different, so that wouldn’t correlate? You can’t pay more than your team brings in in revenue. Do you blame the crowd for not fessing up? Maybe the promoters or the stadium? You only get paid at a rate for what the general public was willing to pay to see you perform.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Why is there consistently only 1 group, seeking to monetize their perceived persecution?

... asking for a friend.

I’m thinking I need advanced DNA testing to find out if I’m a descendant of the Hitites so I can demand reparations from the Babylonians😂😂😂

[La lamy]

Finally! Now we also get to see all the black haters on this forum!

[Normal]

Originally Posted by La lamy

Finally! Now we also get to see all the black haters on this forum!

I think most have died off in American society, but you can still see a few popping up their ugly heads. Hopefully one day they all see life has moved on and they are just the dust in the mirror.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by La lamy

Finally! Now we also get to see all the black haters on this forum!

WRONG!!!

It has absolutely nothing to do with "black hate". I don't know about others, but personally I've had a ton of black (and Jewish and Asian) friends---more in NY and less in TV but that is due to the demographics here. My best friend in grade school was one of the only blacks in a lily white Long Island community.

The issue is revisionist history----trying to erase an injustice by throwing money (reparations) at it, changing the vocabulary (New Speak), or lowering the bar in competition (college admissions, APGA, etc.). I have absolutely no "white guilt". While plantation owners were exploiting slaves in the South 200 years ago, my ancestors were in Europe. I owe their descendants ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

We can't change history. We can study it, we can learn from it, and we can certainly know enough not to repeat it (I hope). But we can't repair it and shouldn't try. Let the statues of confederate leaders stand as a reminder of what was wrong, otherwise those tearing them down are no different from the "firemen" in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I’m thinking I need advanced DNA testing to find out if I’m a descendant of the Hitites so I can demand reparations from the Babylonians😂😂😂

It's those bl**dy Vikings and Romans I'm after!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

It's those bl**dy Vikings and Romans I'm after!

Don't forget my great great great x about 40 grandfather, Henry De lea, who was awarded "lands in Essex and Sussex for fighting valiantly alongside William the Conqueror" .

SORRY (but no cash)

[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by La lamy

Finally! Now we also get to see all the black haters on this forum!

They are out in full force this morning. It makes me sad, I liked it better when they were so vocal about it.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Normal

I think most have died off in American society, but you can still see a few popping up their ugly heads. Hopefully one day they all see life has moved on and they are just the dust in the mirror.

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

They are out in full force this morning. It makes me sad, I liked it better when they were so vocal about it.

The recent Grayson Murray story in the golf world, carries implications far beyond golf. Mental health is as important as physical health. We'd all be better off to spend as much time in a "mental health gym" strengthening our mental health, as we are in a traditional gym.

Those who carry the burdens of guilt, based on what their ancestors may or may not have done 100-150 years ago, would do themselves and society a huge favor, by coming to grips with their issues and understanding there's no going back, there's no re-writing, there's no changing the injustices of the past ... there's only going forward with the experience and wisdom of hindsight.