[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by airstreamingypsy

They are out in full force this morning. It makes me sad, I liked it better when they were so vocal about it.

Why can I not disagree or question something without the name calling of black hater?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

WRONG!!!

It has absolutely nothing to do with "black hate". I don't know about others, but personally I've had a ton of black (and Jewish and Asian) friends---more in NY and less in TV but that is due to the demographics here. My best friend in grade school was one of the only blacks in a lily white Long Island community.

The issue is revisionist history----trying to erase an injustice by throwing money (reparations) at it, changing the vocabulary (New Speak), or lowering the bar in competition (college admissions, APGA, etc.). I have absolutely no "white guilt". While plantation owners were exploiting slaves in the South 200 years ago, my ancestors were in Europe. I owe their descendants ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

We can't change history. We can study it, we can learn from it, and we can certainly know enough not to repeat it (I hope). But we can't repair it and shouldn't try. Let the statues of confederate leaders stand as a reminder of what was wrong, otherwise those tearing them down are no different from the "firemen" in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

Very well said

[Escape Artist]

The Baseball Hall of Fame at Cooperstown, NY as well as statistic-centered organizations such as SABR and Baseball Reference, encompass all baseball statistics and the various leagues, including the Negro leagues and women’s leagues, throughout the centuries of play. That’s different than MLB which has been comprised of two leagues since the early 20th century. In other words, the game of baseball is set apart from the professional permutations we are accustomed to through MLB. Sometimes they overlap as far as stats go.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Why can I not disagree or question something without the name calling of black hater?

Well said.
It's just the same if you object to dogs pooping on your yard. Called a 'dog hater!'

[SHIBUMI]

Any competitive sport stats are unrealistic..........they are just good for bar room and beer talk............ In the early years of any sport where one competed against another the competition was minimal. So standouts were not really that good as their competition was weak. They are just good players in not very talented leagues for their era. The numbers mean nothing over time............

Babe Ruth could not hit todays pitchers, Bobby Jones could not play against todays Tour golfers, etc etc etc etc ... their competition was minimal in their era, BUT, society is entertained by stats and love to argue over who would do what, and it doesn't wash.

There are no real GOATS in sports.........people just need a hero for THEIR time......
Time will ultimately remove all goats.......as new generations need new goats, it sells beer and entertains the sports mob.

That being said, including the black athletes is no big deal...........as they were excluded by society to maintain white supremacy, some payback I guess.

The key to stats is to look at them and say, hey, thats cool. BUT, once you start comparing them to others of a different era you are delusional and just looking for conversation. So, crack open a six pack and have at it.....proves or disturbs nothing but your buzz.............

The only real stats are those made against a non human competitor. You cannot
argue a faster mile, or longer toss, or more weight lifted, etc.... BUT, that just aint fun discussing...........

Originally Posted by Rainger99

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[gatorbill1]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

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Can they do that in Florida????

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Babe Ruth could not hit todays pitchers, Bobby Jones could not play against todays Tour golfers, etc etc etc etc.

Do you think Jack Nicklaus could play today? Ben Hogan? Lee Trevino? Arnie? Bill Russell? Kareem?

Shortly before he died, Ty Cobb was supposedly asked by a reporter how he would do against the current MLB pitchers. Cobb said that he would probably only hit about .300. The reporter said that is amazing - you were a lifetime .367 hitter! Cobb replied that "You've got to remember - I'm seventy-three."

Jackie Robinson played one year in the Negro Leagues. He was 26 and he hit .387 with five home runs in 47 games. His best year in MLB he hit .342 and the most home runs he hit in a season was 19. His career batting average was .313.

[SHIBUMI]

Please explain your point...........sounds like you are agreeing!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Rainger99

Do you think Jack Nicklaus could play today? Ben Hogan? Lee Trevino? Arnie? Bill Russell? Kareem?

Shortly before he died, Ty Cobb was supposedly asked by a reporter how he would do against the current MLB pitchers. Cobb said that he would probably only hit about .300. The reporter said that is amazing - you were a lifetime .367 hitter! Cobb replied that "You've got to remember - I'm seventy-three."

Jackie Robinson played one year in the Negro Leagues. He was 26 and he hit .387 with five home runs in 47 games. His best year in MLB he hit .342 and the most home runs he hit in a season was 19. His career batting average was .313.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Please explain your point...........sounds like you are agreeing!!!!!!

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

You said that Bobby Jones couldn’t make it today and I asked about other great golfers and basketball players (from the 1940s to the 1980s) and whether you thought they could make it today.

You never answered my question.

[SHIBUMI]

I think they wouldn't be as great as the competition level has increased 2 fold from their day.............would they be good..probably but not great


.

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

You said that Bobby Jones couldn’t make it today and I asked about other great golfers and basketball players (from the 1940s to the 1980s) and whether you thought they could make it today.

You never answered my question.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

You said that Bobby Jones couldn’t make it today and I asked about other great golfers and basketball players (from the 1940s to the 1980s) and whether you thought they could make it today.

You never answered my question.

Not so sure about golfers Equipment much better today than back than.

Baseball or Basketball no idea

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Any competitive sport stats are unrealistic..........they are just good for bar room and beer talk............ In the early years of any sport where one competed against another the competition was minimal. So standouts were not really that good as their competition was weak. They are just good players in not very talented leagues for their era. The numbers mean nothing over time............

Babe Ruth could not hit todays pitchers, Bobby Jones could not play against todays Tour golfers, etc etc etc etc ... their competition was minimal in their era, BUT, society is entertained by stats and love to argue over who would do what, and it doesn't wash.

There are no real GOATS in sports.........people just need a hero for THEIR time......
Time will ultimately remove all goats.......as new generations need new goats, it sells beer and entertains the sports mob.

That being said, including the black athletes is no big deal...........as they were excluded by society to maintain white supremacy, some payback I guess.

The key to stats is to look at them and say, hey, thats cool. BUT, once you start comparing them to others of a different era you are delusional and just looking for conversation. So, crack open a six pack and have at it.....proves or disturbs nothing but your buzz.............

The only real stats are those made against a non human competitor. You cannot
argue a faster mile, or longer toss, or more weight lifted, etc.... BUT, that just aint fun discussing...........

Supposedly he had excellent hand/eye coordination. Imagine if he spent time in the gym instead of at the bars and buffets.

[Rainger99]

If the Negro Leagues were better than MLB players, how do people explain that Jackie Robinson hit .387 in his one year in the Negro Leagues but his highest average in the weaker MLB was only .342?

If he were playing against inferior players shouldn’t his average have gone up?

Willie Mays highest batting average was .347 in 1958. Shouldn’t he have hit at least .400 playing against weaker competition?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

If the Negro Leagues were better than MLB players, how do people explain that Jackie Robinson hit .387 in his one year in the Negro Leagues but his highest average in the weaker MLB was only .342?

If he were playing against inferior players shouldn’t his average have gone up?

Willie Mays highest batting average was .347 in 1958. Shouldn’t he have hit at least .400 playing against weaker competition?

Hard to say. Records are very important in baseball and no way to directly compare the two leagues.

That is why my thought is put the outstanding players in the hall of fame and call it a day

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Snakster66

Negro Leagues were designated as "major leagues" in 2020. So why wouldn't the stats count at that point? MLB and Elias have spent the last four years researching and validating stats.

Major Leagues (and associated stats) is not just National League and American League. There's also:

Federal League
American Association
Players League
Union Association
National Association

The stats count as official MLB stats for those leagues as well. Long live the Newark Pepper and Fort Wayne Kekiongas!

Somehow I don't have a problem with the concept. Remember, "TOWARD a more perfect Union". Maybe we are just taking an incremental leap forward.