[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by OhioBuckeye

Like I said buy one if you want, hope you have a good experience. Just do your own homework & read all the Pro’s & Con’s. For a start they’ll have to put up new power grids to handle millions of charging cars, didn’t think of that huh! Not hear to argue, because it seems like everyone knows, & they’re not on the market, basicly not yet, just Tesla! Have a nice day.������

uh, yeah, actually EVERYONE is thinking of that. And the most popular solution is distributed (decentralized) power production. The type is dependent on your location. Here it most likely would be roof solar tiles and a power bank of batteries at home. But, that is a problem that is really a long time off in the future - at least a decade, (current admin estimate that I think is a bit optimistic) more likely 20 years from now.

So, we have 20 years to fix the issues. But, that will not be enough time unless we start. And that is what we are doing, starting, and those that want it NOW are paying a premium, as they do with all new toys.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

My car is 2 years old; I'm holding out to 2024 and will switch to an EV. I'm up there in age and what I'm hoping for is a level 5 self driving car. I'd like to ride in one before I'm in the back of one on my way to Forest Lawn

I am so with you. And I am past ready to stop driving (my wife side has fingernail marks in all the leather - LOL!)

I am 72, I am certain that by 80 I will HAVE to have a FSD car to get around. I would prefer one in the net year or two. I think that FSD will be a major change that will give so many elderly more freedom to get around.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

That question has been answered, in that consumers are so willing that they are backordered a year.

Bringing out my crystal ball, and based on almost every auto manufacturer jumping into the pool (I assume they checked for water first) I would say prices are going to go DOWN just like every other expensive new technology does as mass production kicks in.

So, the real question is WHEN a consumer wants to jump in, not if. But, that when could easily be 30 years from now. That is up to consumers, not me or anyone else to FORCE them into buying.

Not so sure prices will go down, the materials going into a battery might skyrocket as rare earth metals are now produced in only a handful of countries most of them not exactly friendly.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

What people don't stop and think about is...."where does electricity come from?" You have to have power to make power and that comes from (gasp) oil!!! Also what to do with ALL those batteries when you want to throw them out? Not too "green" now. Wouldn't be enough charging stations to serve all who can afford to buy these things. I'll stick with my "gas-driven" car!!

Okay,

1. Very little electricity is generated using OIL, less than 1%. But, you point is still valid, Because a very large percentage of electricity is produced using Coal - really bad pollution source (about 800,000 Americans die every year from coal pollution). The good news in Coal is being retired. Plants are retired every year, and are being replace with alternative forms of electricity production. On one day recently I think Wind beat Coat. So, that is coming along.

2. Batteries are NOT thrown out, they are recycled. At least Tesla is recycling (most?) and working to reach 100%

3. There are plenty of charging stations at this time for the EV owners. Tesla will produce 1 million more EVs this year and maybe 2 million next year. They are racing to add more charging stations to keep up with that. The current administration has just passed a bipartisan bill to put $5 billion into a build out of charging stations along all the major freeways over the next few years. So, that will help a lot.

4. Tesla is a NEW toy (high tech product) and as such they are charging as much as possible for them to fund growth. Even so, they "guessed" wrong how much they could charge, since they are constantly backordered (they can't keep up with demand). Once all the other companies start rolling out EVs the price will plummet (me and my crystal ball says so - lol. We will see).

Absolutely, you should not run out and buy an EV if you are not comfortable buying something at a premium price that has not got all the bugs worked out yet. That is a smart move, let others pay the premium and do the testing. I agree. There a plenty with money burning a hole in their pockets that are will to do the testing for you and me.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Repeatedly the issue of cost keeps coming up. If you live in TV you might have noticed Corvettes, Farries, Jaguars none going over 30MPH . Motorcycles darned with everything short of a bed and Golfcart so pimped up it's beyond belief. I think in TV a cost of an EV is not a factor.

Who said only the folks in TV would be buying EVs?
The average person that retires, may not be able to afford to live in TV, let alone purchase an EV. Wow, no one is talking about just the "Bubble."
I said that most folks that are working and/or living in an apartment might not be able to purchase an EV. That is why we will continue with the fossil fuel autos for a very long time. We won't be able to discontinue building ICE vehicles, just because a bunch of tree huggers think that it will save the planet. I can't understand why our country has become such a bunch of non-compromising, blankety, blank thick skull problem children. We can have both, and it will not destroy the world. Falsely raising the price of gasoline in hopes of making folks purchase EVs or attempting to ban ICE vehicles in ten years is not going to endear the folks to the idea of moving to a more expensive means of transportation. When an EV cost more than a mortgage for some folks or rent, how is that going to help the lower earners? Do we now disregard all but the wealthy and say "tough cookies" get a better job?

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Not so sure prices will go down, the materials going into a battery might skyrocket as rare earth metals are now produced in only a handful of countries most of them not exactly friendly.

I certainly can not disagree with you. Tesla is the worlds largest battery producer, and they can not keep up with their own needs. That is their major advantage BTW over all the other manufacturers. I don't think any of the big guys make batteries yet, I think GM (maybe?) just announced a deal with Panasonic for batteries)

I do think in the next 10 years when EVs are mass produced all over the world we will have to have a new technology to power them. I have no idea what that might be - Maybe Tesla's (the scientist, not the car) idea of RF distribution of electricity (doubtful, but fun to think about everyones hair standing on end.). Maybe micro-nukes? Dunno, lots of work in that area. I think the silver bullet would be some form of power generation onboard the car (again micro-nuke maybe) is the best solution, since it solves the charging issues. Oh and of course the idea of renting batteries instead of buying them, but there are a lot of "social" issues - many people will not like trading their brand new batteries for used ones. But, it is certainly a way forward that solves the charging time, you can swap batteries in 5 minutes.

But, I think we can grow at least 5 years maybe/hopefully 10 before batteries are replaced.

So, yeah, it may end up that the cars are dirt cheap, but the batteries cost a fortune.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

Who said only the folks in TV would be buying EVs?
The average person that retires, may not be able to afford to live in TV, let alone purchase an EV. Wow, no one is talking about just the "Bubble."
I said that most folks that are working and/or living in an apartment might not be able to purchase an EV. That is why we will continue with the fossil fuel autos for a very long time. We won't be able to discontinue building ICE vehicles, just because a bunch of tree huggers think that it will save the planet. I can't understand why our country has become such a bunch of non-compromising, blankety, blank thick skull problem children. We can have both, and it will not destroy the world. Falsely raising the price of gasoline in hopes of making folks purchase EVs or attempting to ban ICE vehicles in ten years is not going to endear the folks to the idea of moving to a more expensive means of transportation. When an EV cost more than a mortgage for some folks or rent, how is that going to help the lower earners? Do we now disregard all but the wealthy and say "tough cookies" get a better job?

Okay, I gotta call you on that one. WHO is calling for ICE cars to be banned in 10 years?

And you are stuck saying what EVs cost today most people can not afford. That is a GOOD thing. There are 300 million ICE vehicles in America alone. Tesla is making 1 million cars per year (this year) and hopes to make 2Million next year, that means we could replace all those in ONLY 150 years.

So, please, no one is suggesting we can replace 300 million cars in 10 years. Even with all the other manufactures jumping on board, most are years from production, and certainly can not phase out ICE cars in less than a decade and that would be an amazingly fast product change over.

So, once again, other than some Youtube video, WHO in power to do so, is suggesting we ban ICE cars in 10 years.

[Speedie]

Originally Posted by jdulej

These are all the same types of issues that faced the move to internal combustion, and they were "solved", mostly in bad ways. Hopefully this time it's done more thoughtfully, but I'm not holding my breath on that front. But, the train has left the station - in 10 (maybe 15) years you will not be able to buy a new gas powered auto.

After fall of 22 the crazy train will be derailed. America has plenty of low cost oil for the next 100 years at least.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Blackbird45

Alternate fuel cars are coming, you can argue about the batteries, their price, the longevity of the vehicle, how long today's owners keep their cars, the charging time, on and on.

At the end the consumer will determine how fast gas cars will fade out. A good barometer to focus on is how much money all the car companies are investing in the EV future. Remember before 1900, horses still dominated the mode of transportation in this country, and we all have to admit things are moving a lot faster today.

Whatever problems these vehicles are facing today will work its way out, as long as there is a profit at the end someone will come up with a solution. No matter how much wants to hold onto the past you cannot stop the future.

Problem is, the gubmint keeps mucking things up with mandates...

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Afraid to keep car pass 3 years, same difference.

Nothing close to the same thing...

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Problem is, the gubmint keeps mucking things up with mandates...

Yes the market works best when the govt interferes least.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Yes the market works best when the govt interferes least.

Just a few that come to mind:

Human Genome Project
Ellis Island
Panama Canal
Elementary and Secondary school system
Hoover Dam
Post Office
GI Bill 1944
DARPA
Apollo Program
Marshal Plan - 1948
Interstate Highway System
NASA - Landing on the moon - uncounted numbers of spin-off that are used everyday.

Not saying those are still wonderful, but for decades we outperformed the world in almost every area. Countries around the world came to the US to learn how we setup our public school system, our post office, our space program, et al...

Around 1970 it seems to me is when things started going sideways, and has not so slowly gone down hill since then, until we are here, where Congress votes against their own constituents best interest over 90% of the time and votes in favor of big money interests.

And today, there is only money - everything is about how much of the governments teat each company can suck on. IMNSHO - the only thing to save us is a complete overhaul that gets the vast amount of money given to companies out of the government. Go back to funding areas that are too big for a company to handle, and once started step back and let capitalism run it.

Oh, and for my conservative friends, I also would like to see a complete overhaul of our disaster "welfare" (handout) system. I would like to see changes that would include Universal Basic Income (replace all handouts), Universal Healthcare, and no cost public education k-college or k-apprentice programs. After all I believe in a hand up to those that need it, not a hand out.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

Nothing close to the same thing...

Opinion, you have you’re and I have mine.

Why we get second opinion’s. My opinion electric vehicles for professionals best thing since sliced bread. All the got to remember is plug it in. O wait the tires still need air when warning light blinks, but where are the valve stems and where do I get air? where does the windshield wiper fluid go…… all highly technical processes. Where the handyman?

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Just a few that come to mind:

Human Genome Project
Ellis Island
Panama Canal
Elementary and Secondary school system
Hoover Dam
Post Office
GI Bill 1944
DARPA
Apollo Program
Marshal Plan - 1948
Interstate Highway System
NASA - Landing on the moon - uncounted numbers of spin-off that are used everyday.

Not saying those are still wonderful, but for decades we outperformed the world in almost every area. Countries around the world came to the US to learn how we setup our public school system, our post office, our space program, et al...

Around 1970 it seems to me is when things started going sideways, and has not so slowly gone down hill since then, until we are here, where Congress votes against their own constituents best interest over 90% of the time and votes in favor of big money interests.

And today, there is only money - everything is about how much of the governments teat each company can suck on. IMNSHO - the only thing to save us is a complete overhaul that gets the vast amount of money given to companies out of the government. Go back to funding areas that are too big for a company to handle, and once started step back and let capitalism run it.

Oh, and for my conservative friends, I also would like to see a complete overhaul of our disaster "welfare" (handout) system. I would like to see changes that would include Universal Basic Income (replace all handouts), Universal Healthcare, and no cost public education k-college or k-apprentice programs. After all I believe in a hand up to those that need it, not a hand out.

Yes, those thing on the list define "the market"...

[Retiredsteve]

Originally Posted by Brad-tv

Right now Tesla offers a 8 year 100,000 battery warranty. Many folks claim to have over a million miles with slight battery degradation in charging. There is no car company in the world that will warranty anything over a 100,000 mile warranty on a engine( I believe). 900-1000 mile range per charge is probably just the beginning on range . I would bet in the next 5-10 years all manufacturers will hit this range if not further.

I'm betting most people who drove the Model T were complaining like most are here about new technology