[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Correct. And it's not the cyclists problem if you have to wait until he/she feels it's safe to move over and let you pass.

So your position is that a cyclist ignorant of the driving skills of a cart that wants to pass gets to dictate traffic flow? Seriously??? Sorry, cyclists don’t own the MMPs

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

So your position is that a cyclist ignorant of the driving skills of a cart that wants to pass gets to dictate traffic flow? Seriously??? Sorry, cyclists don’t own the MMPs

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.

Bingo.

I'd also add that when we allow pride to dictate our actions, we're on some dangerous ground. None of us are infallible.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It is my position that the cyclist is correct if in his estimation, there is not enough room for a cart to pass between him and the left edge of the roadway. This could be because it's where the MMP is divided, and there isn't enough width to safely do it. It could be because in his estimation there isn't enough vision ahead to be sure the passing cart will make it by with sufficient room before the possibility of an unseen oncoming cart could cause a dangerous situation with the passing cart possibly needing to make an abrupt reentry into the right lane at the cyclist's expense.

The alternative is for the cyclist to assume the cart driver isn't stupid, and that is a dangerous assumption to make.
It's not about who "owns he" the MMP. It's about whose safety is at stake in that situation, and who has to make the call so nobody gets hurt.

Sorry, but I’M driving MY cart. I couldn’t care less about somebody else’s “estimation”. The cyclist is NOT driving FOR me, so he can keep HIS backseat driving estimate to himself. Again, my comments are predicated on being able to SAFELY pass, in MY estimate, NOT YOURS. When you are driving your car and run up to some bozo driving 30 in a 55 zone, do you rely on THEIR judgment as to when it is safe to pass or your own? Your comment suggests that somehow cyclists have far superior judgment skills than the rest of us

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

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Bingo.

I'd also add that when we allow pride to dictate our actions, we're on some dangerous ground. None of us are infallible.

Starting with cyclists

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Sorry, but I’M driving MY cart. I couldn’t care less about somebody else’s “estimation”. The cyclist is NOT driving FOR me, so he can keep HIS backseat driving estimate to himself. Again, my comments are predicated on being able to SAFELY pass, in MY estimate, NOT YOURS. When you are driving your car and run up to some bozo driving 30 in a 55 zone, do you rely on THEIR judgment as to when it is safe to pass or your own? Your comment suggests that somehow cyclists have far superior judgment skills than the rest of us

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

[D.Bolen]

Originally Posted by ElDiabloJoe

Of course you do. If the shoe fits. me, not I. "...to pass in the same lane as me." But it's okay for them to sideswipe me, a vulnerable pedestrian wearing no helmet or other PPE? I guess it makes them feel like vroom-vroom a racecar passing a competitor or some other form of superiority? I have no idea why they do it, really, I just have experienced that they do do it. Am I to remain defenseless?

Hey El Diablo Joe, I will not let you remain defenseless. Below are my personal observations (with comments), along with a question for the OP Laker14 as invited (whose post I sincerely appreciate and have learned from BTW):

In my (too many) years of experience, cyclists, upon encountering those on foot (even in an area designated for both bicycles and pedestrians and in the right-edge of the right lane) seem to generally have an initial territorial-like response, viewing the body of that slow-moving pedestrian as an annoying obstacle, and that person as an interloper to their roadway and possible impediment to maintaining their momentum, focus, etc.

See any similarity to the way car drivers react when they see one or more bicycles they cannot pass?

(Cyclists may assume to have a higher moral ground re fossil fuel usage, but for fun I'll share that spandex (like a multitude of daily-use items) is manufactured with fossil fuels/petroleum and not via spigots tapped into rubber tree plants; see: The Environmental Impact of Spandex - One Green Planet )

So, my question to OP Laker14 as inspired the post by ElDiabloJoe is: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?

I would not really expect you to furnish a guesstimate for the second question.

My guess is at least 90% are irritated, and maybe 25%-30% are even irritated enough to deliberately pass at a close clip, overconfident re their navigational abilities & reaction time and not realizing how severe a physical injury could result to the unwary pedestrian if the latter (a person with ability to make sharp movements and not just a static, annoying blob in the roadway) made the slightest unexpected movement that would result in a collision?

Edit: I'm adding a last paragraph to the OP because in re-reading, I think my post sounded antagonistic to cyclists. I didn't mean it to be that way. Maybe a little envious that I'll never be physically fit & confidant enough to ride with the "gather at 7am at Barnes & Noble" crowd. But if you have a response, I'd value your opinion.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

Except in this case I am 110% correct. I guess I haven’t been clear enough. YOU do not dictate how I drive. YOU do not get to tell me what to do. YOU are not in charge of directing traffic on a MMP. I don’t care that you think you are the self appointed guardian of the roadways If you think you do, you should be prepared to be disappointed

[Happydaz]

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by D.Bolen

Hey El Diablo Joe, I will not let you remain defenseless. Below are my personal observations (with comments), along with a question for the OP Laker14 as invited (whose post I sincerely appreciate and have learned from BTW):

In my (too many) years of experience, cyclists, upon encountering those on foot (even in an area designated for both bicycles and pedestrians and in the right-edge of the right lane) seem to generally have an initial territorial-like response, viewing the body of that slow-moving pedestrian as an annoying obstacle, and that person as an interloper to their roadway and possible impediment to maintaining their momentum, focus, etc.

See any similarity to the way car drivers react when they see one or more bicycles they cannot pass?

(Cyclists may assume to have a higher moral ground re fossil fuel usage, but for fun I'll share that spandex (like a multitude of daily-use items) is manufactured with fossil fuels/petroleum and not via spigots tapped into rubber tree plants; see: The Environmental Impact of Spandex - One Green Planet )

So, my question to OP Laker14 as inspired the post by ElDiabloJoe is: What percentage of serious cyclists do you think are irritated when they encounter a pedestrian while riding the MMPs? And also, what percentage are so irritated that they might deliberately pass at a close clip?

I would not really expect you to furnish a guesstimate for the second question.

My guess is at least 90% are irritated, and maybe 25%-30% are even irritated enough to deliberately pass at a close clip, overconfident re their navigational abilities & reaction time and not realizing how severe a physical injury could result to the unwary pedestrian if the latter (a person with ability to make sharp movements and not just a static, annoying blob in the roadway) made the slightest unexpected movement that would result in a collision?

Edit: I'm adding a last paragraph to the OP because in re-reading, I think my post sounded antagonistic to cyclists. I didn't mean it to be that way. Maybe a little envious that I'll never be physically fit & confidant enough to ride with the "gather at 7am at Barnes & Noble" crowd. But if you have a response, I'd value your opinion.

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread. I'm not. Not that it's important.
I gave up cycling a few years ago because I found my fear of motorists had grown to the point that I wasn't finding it enjoyable. I've never ridden a bike in TV, so I can't speak from any first hand experience.
I live on a lake in NY, and I have ridden on what I would call 1 1/2 lane roads, with cars, cars pulling boat trailers, pedestrians, runners, dog walkers, and kids on skateboards. I never got irritated with anyone on foot. I did a lot of walking on those roads myself and I would get irritated with bicyclist zooming by from my 6 O'Clock without so much as a "Behind you",,, or "on the left"...a very dangerous move in my opinion. When riding and approaching pedestrians I would slow down, and give them a "behind you, on the left" warning. I would slow to the point of being able to avoid them if they should move the wrong way.
When a cyclist would warn me I would always thank them as they passed.
I have no idea what percentage of cyclists get annoyed by pedestrians on the MMPs. If they do, they are in the wrong. IMO, just as wrong as the dude in the cart who thinks the biker should move all the way to the right so the cart can pass between oncoming carts and the biker's left knee.

I hope I've answered your question.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

Well said.

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I think we've all read enough of your posts to know you will never admit you are wrong, no matter what.
Carry on.

I summed it up 99 posts before yours (post 12). I can share my ignore list with you which targets the posters who are determined to get the last word in, talk to themselves, and spread their own brand of negativity.

It spares me the time of seeing uneducated, unreasonable and simply ignorant posts appearing in a thread. It's a tremendous time saver for someone like myself who does not associate with ignorance in real life.

[D.Bolen]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread.

You're correct Laker14, somewhere along the line I had misidentified you as the OP of this thread.

Thanks for your reply and the background info.

[MX rider]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I'm a little confused here. I get the impression from your post that you have me confused as the OP of this thread. I'm not. Not that it's important.
I gave up cycling a few years ago because I found my fear of motorists had grown to the point that I wasn't finding it enjoyable. I've never ridden a bike in TV, so I can't speak from any first hand experience.
I live on a lake in NY, and I have ridden on what I would call 1 1/2 lane roads, with cars, cars pulling boat trailers, pedestrians, runners, dog walkers, and kids on skateboards. I never got irritated with anyone on foot. I did a lot of walking on those roads myself and I would get irritated with bicyclist zooming by from my 6 O'Clock without so much as a "Behind you",,, or "on the left"...a very dangerous move in my opinion. When riding and approaching pedestrians I would slow down, and give them a "behind you, on the left" warning. I would slow to the point of being able to avoid them if they should move the wrong way.
When a cyclist would warn me I would always thank them as they passed.
I have no idea what percentage of cyclists get annoyed by pedestrians on the MMPs. If they do, they are in the wrong. IMO, just as wrong as the dude in the cart who thinks the biker should move all the way to the right so the cart can pass between oncoming carts and the biker's left knee.

I hope I've answered your question.

Good post.
My wife and I mountain bike offroad. I don't trust drivers enough to ride the road. But we do like to ride around on the MM paths. We ride at a casual pace , and 99% of the time it's all good. We also run on the MM. But there's always that 1% that are a**holes, which includes drivers, runners and cyclists.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

I am a bicyclist and I was interested to see how the conversation would go on this topic. As far as multimodal paths go, they really are not suited for a fast bicyclist or a group of bicyclists to use as a major route of transport. Traffic is too heavy and there are many walkers, joggers and golf carts on them. The streets are much safer, especially when riding with a group of bicyclists separated into groups of ten. It is important that all bicycles have front and rear flashing lights as well as rear mirrors. Bicycling is an absolutely enjoyable sport and many of us are in the best shape of our lives. I am a 75 years old male and I weigh 160 pounds. I just love riding around the Villages. I would have to say that 99% of the vehicle drivers are considerate of us on the road. As for the bickering that goes on here, I just have to say “Chill out, take it easy.” Maybe go out for a run, get some good exercise to work out your frustrations. Hanging around your computer all day doesn’t seem to be a good idea. Cheers and happy exercising and whatever else you choose to do to maintain good physical and mental health.

Get out of here with your logic, reason and politeness...

People are fighting here!

Oh, and to your post?