[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by dirtbanker

If they have the same rights and responsibilities as cars why don't they pay for license plates? Why don't they have to have proof of insurance? Why don't they contribute to road tax fund?

If the roads are "sub-standard width" in the Villages, why don't you "Lance Armstrong Wanna Be"s throw your silly outfits on and ride your bike on a stand in your driveway? You would not have to worry about being squeezed into curbs and you don't have to worry about any SUV trying to kill you.

First of all, let me state that I am not a cyclist. I don't even own a bicycle, and I haven't been on one in 40 years. I also initially took offense at threads that had cyclists espousing the "own the lane" philosophy, since it appeared that their national organization was making up their own rules.

Then, I did some research. Under the law, they have the same rights and responsibilities when using the public roads, and are entitled to be there. I went as far as walking out to the center line of Morse and BV to measure the lanes. They are absolutely correct that there is not enough room for a car to pass a bicycle in the same lane with 3 feet of clearance. Interestingly, it's not the width of the SUV that's the problem, it is the projection of the side view mirrors.

The argument about licensing cycles is absurd. How about pedestrians? Should the need a license, a plate, and pay a fee to walk on a road? How about walking across the street to a neighbor's house---need a license for that. How about golf carts?

The second paragraph was even more inane. Who are any of us to tell another what activity they are allowed to enjoy, where to enjoy it, and what to wear? Maybe the cyclists should get to tell us what to wear on the golf course, or the pools, or in the squares??? Or do they just get to make fun of what you are wearing?

To paraphrase JFK---We all live in this small community, we all share the same roads, we all cherish our retirement, and we are all mortal.

End of rant

[biker1]

I see you haven't made much progress on your anger issues since your last rant about cyclists. Think of your anger as a helium balloon: just let it go. Have a good day and drive gently.

Originally Posted by dirtbanker

If they have the same rights and responsibilities as cars why don't they pay for license plates? Why don't they have to have proof of insurance? Why don't they contribute to road tax fund?

If the roads are "sub-standard width" in the Villages, why don't you "Lance Armstrong Wanna Be"s throw your silly outfits on and ride your bike on a stand in your driveway? You would not have to worry about being squeezed into curbs and you don't have to worry about any SUV trying to kill you.

[Walter123]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

First of all, let me state that I am not a cyclist. I don't even own a bicycle, and I haven't been on one in 40 years. I also initially took offense at threads that had cyclists espousing the "own the lane" philosophy, since it appeared that their national organization was making up their own rules.

Then, I did some research. Under the law, they have the same rights and responsibilities when using the public roads, and are entitled to be there. I went as far as walking out to the center line of Morse and BV to measure the lanes. They are absolutely correct that there is not enough room for a car to pass a bicycle in the same lane with 3 feet of clearance. Interestingly, it's not the width of the SUV that's the problem, it is the projection of the side view mirrors.

The argument about licensing cycles is absurd. How about pedestrians? Should the need a license, a plate, and pay a fee to walk on a road? How about walking across the street to a neighbor's house---need a license for that. How about golf carts?

The second paragraph was even more inane. Who are any of us to tell another what activity they are allowed to enjoy, where to enjoy it, and what to wear? Maybe the cyclists should get to tell us what to wear on the golf course, or the pools, or in the squares??? Or do they just get to make fun of what you are wearing?

To paraphrase JFK---We all live in this small community, we all share the same roads, we all cherish our retirement, and we are all mortal.

End of rant

That about covers it. Very good response.

[looneycat]

people are throwing road width around. standard lane width is 9-12 feet. our lanes are easily 9 feet and more, besides, since they are county roads, you again are blaming the villages for something built under govt authority.

[biker1]

There is no blame being assessed as nothing has been done incorrectly. It is nothing more than a statement of fact regarding lane widths and the consequences within the law. The term "sub-standard width" is from the Florida statute.

Originally Posted by looneycat

people are throwing road width around. standard lane width is 9-12 feet. our lanes are easily 9 feet and more, besides, since they are county roads, you again are blaming the villages for something built under govt authority.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by looneycat

people are throwing road width around. standard lane width is 9-12 feet. our lanes are easily 9 feet and more, besides, since they are county roads, you again are blaming the villages for something built under govt authority.

The criteria, under the law, is not whether or not the road is "standard width", it is whether there is enough room for a motor vehicle to pass the bicycle in the same lane with 3 feet of margin.

The lanes on Morse, at least where it runs past Sarasota practice range, are 10 feet 9 inches. My SUV (not a compact car but also not a landscaper hauling a trailer) is 7 foot 4 inches from the tips of mirrors. Giving 3 feet of safety, this means I would have to perfectly, consistently drive with the tip of my driver's side mirror over the center line of the road (not a good idea) while the cyclist would have to perfectly and consistently ride 5 inches off the curb. Please tell me that this is not what you are advocating.

Again, I am not a cyclist and I wouldn't cry if I never encountered them on a road, but they have their rights too.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

First of all, let me state that I am not a cyclist. I don't even own a bicycle, and I haven't been on one in 40 years. I also initially took offense at threads that had cyclists espousing the "own the lane" philosophy, since it appeared that their national organization was making up their own rules.

Then, I did some research. Under the law, they have the same rights and responsibilities when using the public roads, and are entitled to be there. I went as far as walking out to the center line of Morse and BV to measure the lanes. They are absolutely correct that there is not enough room for a car to pass a bicycle in the same lane with 3 feet of clearance. Interestingly, it's not the width of the SUV that's the problem, it is the projection of the side view mirrors.

The argument about licensing cycles is absurd. How about pedestrians? Should the need a license, a plate, and pay a fee to walk on a road? How about walking across the street to a neighbor's house---need a license for that. How about golf carts?

The second paragraph was even more inane. Who are any of us to tell another what activity they are allowed to enjoy, where to enjoy it, and what to wear? Maybe the cyclists should get to tell us what to wear on the golf course, or the pools, or in the squares??? Or do they just get to make fun of what you are wearing?

To paraphrase JFK---We all live in this small community, we all share the same roads, we all cherish our retirement, and we are all mortal.

End of rant

Please remember your post the next time you want to vent about the "90 yo going 20 mph in the BV left lane".

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Please remember your post the next time you want to vent about the "90 yo going 20 mph in the BV left lane".

Apples and oranges. Not many cyclists are capable of sustaining 35 mph. The car comes equipped with a gas pedal, and those that have trouble using it do not need to be in the left lane. The cyclists who choose to use those roads are doing it to the best of their ability and limitations of their equipment. Drivers who crawl , especially in the left lane, are creating an unnecessary road hazard. And by the way, my "slow speed in left lane" posts are directed mostly at interstates. Locally I usually don't get up to 35 either.

[biker1]

There is much confusion on this issue as many people believe the term refers to some aspect of road quality. The term "sub-standard width", as far as I can tell, only exists in the Florida statute and refers to a road that is too narrow for a car and bike to coexist. From the FL statute:

For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

The criteria, under the law, is not whether or not the road is "standard width", it is whether there is enough room for a motor vehicle to pass the bicycle in the same lane with 3 feet of margin.

The lanes on Morse, at least where it runs past Sarasota practice range, are 10 feet 9 inches. My SUV (not a compact car but also not a landscaper hauling a trailer) is 7 foot 4 inches from the tips of mirrors. Giving 3 feet of safety, this means I would have to perfectly, consistently drive with the tip of my driver's side mirror over the center line of the road (not a good idea) while the cyclist would have to perfectly and consistently ride 5 inches off the curb. Please tell me that this is not what you are advocating.

Again, I am not a cyclist and I wouldn't cry if I never encountered them on a road, but they have their rights too.

[biker1]

That's funny ;-) Anyone who can sustain 35 mph would have a good shot at winning a Tour de France time trial, which last about 15 minutes or so. Yes, there are not too many people around here who can do that (without wind or elevation assist).

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Apples and oranges. Not many cyclists are capable of sustaining 35 mph. The car comes equipped with a gas pedal, and those that have trouble using it do not need to be in the left lane. The cyclists who choose to use those roads are doing it to the best of their ability and limitations of their equipment. Drivers who crawl , especially in the left lane, are creating an unnecessary road hazard. And by the way, my "slow speed in left lane" posts are directed mostly at interstates. Locally I usually don't get up to 35 either.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by biker1

...From the FL statute:

For the purposes of this subsection, a “substandard-width lane” is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and another vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane.

Biker1 is right. The term "sub-standard" is used frequently and rather casually regarding streets and roads in The Villages.

TV streets and roads are in some areas sub-standard ONLY in the context of automobile/bicycle considerations. They are NOT sub-standard in any other way with respect to Florida Department of Transportation road construction specifications...including those specifying lane width.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Biker1 is right. The term "sub-standard" is used frequently and rather casually regarding streets and roads in The Villages.

TV streets and roads are in some areas sub-standard ONLY in the context of automobile/bicycle considerations. They are NOT sub-standard in any other way with respect to Florida Department of Transportation road construction specifications...including those specifying lane width.

Oh, no, not again!!!

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Oh, no, not again!!!

I may have to rethink my previous post.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I may have to rethink my previous post.

or me, mine

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Originally Posted by dirtbanker

If they have the same rights and responsibilities as cars why don't they pay for license plates? Why don't they have to have proof of insurance? Why don't they contribute to road tax fund?

If the roads are "sub-standard width" in the Villages, why don't you "Lance Armstrong Wanna Be"s throw your silly outfits on and ride your bike on a stand in your driveway? You would not have to worry about being squeezed into curbs and you don't have to worry about any SUV trying to kill you.

Hold on, Hoss. I am not a wanna be. I'll have you know that I have exactly the same number of Tour de France wins as Lance Armstrong,