[Drdoug49]

Most TV residents can’t manage their own lives, over 70% are overweight and their added healthcare costs are born by the rest of us. We need government to set the rules, it’s called living in a civilized society, otherwise people left to their own devices just dig their graves with a knife and fork as proven by the high rate of obesity by residents here. By the way I walk the walk, BMI of 23 and weigh the same now 170lbs at 6ft 1 as I did when I graduated from college in 71. Get outa the golf cart and start walking

[davem4616]

Originally Posted by David Fletcher

Perhaps the real issue is not liberty or freedom, they are very different. The issue may be ”responsibility” and justice.

You can choose to act responsibly and above all remember the word is justice. Most think the word is just us.

If this does not wake up America to the need for universal health care then I don’t know what will.

If everybody has good universal health care ( single payer) the economy will be a lot stronger and everyone will win even the medical community.

oh quit with the Universal Healthcare BS....England and Canada have it and it didn't stop the spread of/deaths from covid-19 in those countries

[PugMom]

Originally Posted by stadry

where is the responsibility & justice of universal health care ? we can agree on 1 thing - no, you don’t know.

universal health care ( single payer ) will reduce the level of care we now enjoy, raise prices, & drive medical pro's out of the practice. we will all be equally miserable except for those who can afford black market med care. just as obamacare finally made practicing medicine just not worth it anymore, i lost my cardiologist, gp, urologist, & oncologist.

its obvious to me you never had to sign checks but only endorse them

another thing - where is all this $$ coming from ? states like ny, il, ca, ma, ct, nj, pa - they're not the only 1's who are broke,,, so's the fed,,, why do think the usa sells bonds ? to BORROW MONEY, folks,,, which our grandchildren can pay back w/more worthless $$$
i think we are a very selfish generation

it's true! speak to someone from a country with single payer & they can tell you they were happy to get out of a socialist 'paradise' with whatever cash in pocket & clothes on their backs. talk to my hubby, he came from a socialist nation & would NEVER go back--same reason we left Connecticut to head straight here: we didnt even see the place personally, just pics, & that was good enuf for us. we sold the house, got cash $$, packed the dogs in the car & here we are,..lovin' the lifestyle,. oxo

[JodyBraga]

Is it okay to make choices and then expect others to "fix" (health care workers) them?[/QUOTE]

We (healthcare workers) do this daily. We “fix” (or at least “patch up”) those that are non compliant with medications and diet, those that smoke, those that are alcoholics, those that are substance abusers...and the list goes on and on. We get them well enough to leave the hospitals and rehabs only so that they can begin the cycle all over again!
As the saying goes, we can’t fix stupid. It’s up to the individual to use the information provided to stay healthy!
And we can’t fix dead.

[VillageLiberal]

Most people I've met, and most stories I've read, people on single payer health care are happy with thier system, and oh by the way, they still pay for thier health care only the money goes to thier government rather than a for profit company. It's kinda like the socialist Social Security and socialist Medicare, which I'm almost certain by your post that you've refused to take money or services from because you know socialism and all.

[Tsego58]

Most veterans fought for the freedom we have. We were trained for all types of warfare to include biological. There were standards we had to measure and meet to neutralize the situations. Forget about your selfish bs and do what we had to do and deal with it maybe when you get through all of it you will understand the real meaning of freedom.

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

Let me pose a thought experiment for you.

Suppose your best friend has asthma or COPD and has been pretty religious about staying away from people and staying safe because people with lung disease are the most likely to die from the disease. But, you're bored and miss your friend, so you call and ask if you can come over. Your friend says that it wouldn't be a good idea, but you keep pushing and your friend finally relents. You come over and you have a few drinks, laugh a lot and have a great time. Your friend goes back to the solitary life, but the next day you start noticing the C-19 symptoms. But, you're healthy and although you feel poorly you get over it. Your friend comes down with it a week or two later and eventually dies in the hospital due to lung failure.

Tell me. Do you feel sorry for your best friend, who had just retired and was finally getting to live the good life and for all the others who lost someone they cared a lot about? Could you live with yourself for being so selfish and being directly responsible for your friend's death?

Or, would you just be bummed because you no longer have a best friend and you're lonely now? My guess is that the latter is the case because you come across as the kind of person who thinks only of yourself.

[VillageLiberal]

Originally Posted by Windguy

Let me pose a thought experiment for you.

Suppose your best friend has asthma or COPD and has been pretty religious about staying away from people and staying safe because people with lung disease are the most likely to die from the disease. But, you're bored and miss your friend, so you call and ask if you can come over. Your friend says that it wouldn't be a good idea, but you keep pushing and your friend finally relents. You come over and you have a few drinks, laugh a lot and have a great time. Your friend goes back to the solitary life, but the next day you start noticing the C-19 symptoms. But, you're healthy and although you feel poorly you get over it. Your friend comes down with it a week or two later and eventually dies in the hospital due to lung failure.

Tell me. Do you feel sorry for your best friend, who had just retired and was finally getting to live the good life and for all the others who lost someone they cared a lot about? Could you live with yourself for being so selfish and being directly responsible for your friend's death?

Or, would you just be bummed because you no longer have a best friend and you're lonely now? My guess is that the latter is the case because you come across as the kind of person who thinks only of yourself.

Great point, I feel like there are people that only care about themselves. I have a friend who is deathly allergic to nuts, walnuts will kill him. So we make dietary adjustments so as not to kill my friend. However, I feel there are people who'd be like screw your allergies here eat this walnut muffin I made just for you!

[NJRICHARD]

The pools provide exercise for people unable to run or walk. I for one have lower back issues. The only exercise that keeps the pain away is swimming laps/walking in the pool. Now that the snow-birds are gone OPEN UP THE POOLS. The volley ball, sports activities will have to wait. BUT the pools are not crowded this time of the year and those who want to sun bathe can alternate lounge chairs.

I see the beautiful golf courses CLOSED at 4:00...WHY, everything else is closed why not keep the only activity that is going strong open longer...maybe till 7:00pm. I went out on a course at 4:30, alone. It was as beautiful as ever, weather, sun going down, EMPTY! At the 6th hole the AMBASSADOR started YELLING at me. She told me there is a VIRUS going around....WOW!, didn't realize it!! She told me to immediately pick up my golf balls (2) AND NEVER DO THIS AGAIN!! I felt like I had to stand in the corner for an hour. Last time I looked we still pay our HOA FEE? IF, they reduce most of the activities in one area, why not increase them (GOLF) in another to off set it??

[kanoa1kale2]

Originally Posted by allus70

The virus has killed more than 1,800 Americans almost every day since April 7, and the official toll may be an undercount.

By comparison, heart disease typically kills 1,774 Americans a day, and cancer kills 1,641.

The virus in now spreading to the suburbs and rural areas.

In 2018, according to the CDC, the country had 45,000,000 infected with flu and lost 61,000 people that year. We did NOT have the panic we are experiencing now.

[VillageLiberal]

Originally Posted by NJRICHARD

The pools provide exercise for people unable to run or walk. I for one have lower back issues. The only exercise that keeps the pain away is swimming laps/walking in the pool. Now that the snow-birds are gone OPEN UP THE POOLS. The volley ball, sports activities will have to wait. BUT the pools are not crowded this time of the year and those who want to sun bathe can alternate lounge chairs.

I see the beautiful golf courses CLOSED at 4:00...WHY, everything else is closed why not keep the only activity that is going strong open longer...maybe till 7:00pm. I went out on a course at 4:30, alone. It was as beautiful as ever, weather, sun going down, EMPTY! At the 6th hole the AMBASSADOR started YELLING at me. She told me there is a VIRUS going around....WOW!, didn't realize it!! She told me to immediately pick up my golf balls (2) AND NEVER DO THIS AGAIN!! I felt like I had to stand in the corner for an hour. Last time I looked we still pay our HOA FEE? IF, they reduce most of the activities in one area, why not increase them (GOLF) in another to off set it??

Actually not read anything related to the virus and pools. Clearly you can't swim with a mask on. I wonder if the pool water would kill the virus? If an infected person's mucus was in the water and you ingested it would you get sick? I know they close the pools when people accidentally poop in the pool but that may be because you know... 💩. You can see it and all. At this point I think I'd take my chances with poop over the virus, not sure ingesting someone else's poop will kill you. Hang in there, life will get back together soon.

[merrymini]

Heart disease and cancer kill every day of the year. This virus does not, so your numbers are deceiving and there are many viruses like the common flu which takes many more lives and no one blinks twice!

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by B767drvr

A discussion on morals: Is it your neighbor's responsibility to keep you safe/healthy?

The answer is a definite NO. It is not your responsibility to keep someone else safe. However, it is your responsibility to avoid doing things that endanger others. By spraying C-19 germs around, your are endangering others.

Let's look at a couple of related moral examples.

Suppose you are rushing down the sidewalk so you don't miss the bus to work. You see a child start to chase a ball into the street just as a car is coming. Is it your responsibility to stop that child from running into the street even though you might be late for the bus? I wouldn't think it was my responsibility, but it would be the moral thing to do. Maybe you would think that it's just fate and that life isn't fair. The kid just won the Darwin award. How would you feel if a stranger let your child die because it wasn't their responsibility? Bitter?

Suppose you are rushing to the train station in your car and were worried that you might miss the train. Now, suppose a child chases a ball into the street. Is it your responsibility to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the child? Or, is it infringing on your rights to get to the station on time because stopping to avoid killing the child might make you miss the train?

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Originally Posted by Aces4

One more question to be added regarding morality: what is more important... one’s fellow man or the almighty dollar?

Easy to say when you are retired. But if you are the only one in the family working and you have to feed your family it very scary to say the least. It’s not about The Almighty Dollar bud. Most people can’t go for even two weeks without income! Sad but still true. You need to think a little deeper.

[Fredster]

Originally Posted by Drdoug49

Most TV residents can’t manage their own lives, over 70% are overweight and their added healthcare costs are born by the rest of us. We need government to set the rules, it’s called living in a civilized society, otherwise people left to their own devices just dig their graves with a knife and fork as proven by the high rate of obesity by residents here. By the way I walk the walk, BMI of 23 and weigh the same now 170lbs at 6ft 1 as I did when I graduated from college in 71. Get outa the golf cart and start walking

What to me is a really scary thought, that there were a lot of people
like you who have little or no faith in individuals capacity to take care of themselves,
involved in an overreaching controlling government.