[Bucco]

Originally Posted by tony

Bucco,

I respect your posts in Political and wish you would not feel tread upon. Let me try to change your perspective a little. In many forums, value-added boards are accessible by paid subscription only, and they are considered elite, "up stairs."

We clearly don't want to charge for the value-added Political forum, but can you please try for a day or two to consider it "upstairs," by subscription, and pretend I sent you a bill for $48 a year to get into Political. I know of a forum that does charge $48 a year to just post.

Another perspective: Can we agree that Political gets a little boisterous? We built you folks a little soundproof partition upstairs. You can argue all you want upstairs, and nobody downstairs can hear you. If anybody downstairs comes upstairs and complains about the noise, I will suggest where they can go, too.

And billethkid, you really made me laugh when you said,

"I would like to see how brazen some of the critics are when eye ball to eye ball...anonymity begets bravery for some."

Them's some pretty strong words there, pardner, for somebody who goes anonymously by "billethkid."

Tony,

I have accepted your decision and no harm no foul....my objections have always been ....

I think that probably, but dont know, that the forum was the most visited place on TOTV and if you sold ads just inside the political you would have great coverage.

Most importantly, NONE...not one of the reasons given make any sense to me. NOBODY had to even visit there if they didnt want to and if you are taking it "private" to help them with their addiction, then good for you, but everyone who visited there did so of their own free will. You did not have to pass it on your way somewhere else...you did not need to know the content, and I would suggest that there are many who dont even know it existed until this issue was raised.

If in fact people complained, I would love to read the complaints (not asking you for them understand) but how do you make a case for objectionable language WHERE THERE IS NONE...how do you make a case for racisim WHERE THERE IS NONE, thus what the issue is or was is well beyond me; I must suppose that the attitude that has caused your decision did not exist during the campaign when the language, etc in the forum was much much much more contentious. The political forum has become more one way than the other and I sincerely hope that is not the reason because that would really stink.

Now, having said that I had accepted the change fully but when I saw this thread and the FALSE and PHONEY accusations made against those who post in the political forum, I felt obliged to post. The venom thrust at those folks was patently unfair.

I speak, on my own, for ALL of the posters there...those who agree with me politically or violently disagree with me. The accusations that are on here, and dealt with as if they are jokes, are just wrong. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON I POSTED ON THIS THREAD. If these are the people who complained to you then there is something very wrong as their language is worse than any on the political forum.

Ok...said my peace Tony......as I said the ONLY reason I am on your "lanai" or wherever I have ended up is that this thread, like a few others on here, can be just as cantankerous as the political forum.

Now,...will go either down to the basement or upstairs depending on your point of view !

Have a great day and to those who are visiting this board and do not live here yet....TOTV is a great place...The Villages is a great place and even us folks who post in political are nice folks...come on down !

[tony]

Political has 97 members right now.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by tony

Political has 97 members right now.

That means only 1% of members of this web site write in the political section. Or even read it because it sounds like yoiu have to be a member of the political section to read it to. Thats what I was saying. That it seems like such a tiny amount.

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by Talk Host

What if you had a big party at your home and a fairly large number of the attendees entered into a loud political discussion in the kitchen and it became heated at times. Then some of the other guests started to complain to you that it was straining their enjoyment. What would you do?.

I would tell them to stay out of the kitchen. Anyone offended by comments in political, entered by choice and read what offended them of their own volition. No one told them to enter and read. It was a matter of choice. Their kinda like the people who complain about all the sex, violence and nudity in "R" rated movies but keep viewing them so they can report how offensive the content is. Or.....the man who reported lewd, lascivious conduct to the police. He stated that his neighbors had sex every night in their pool for three weeks. He had set up a step ladder by his fence and watched them every evening. The couple in the pool was offended and filed a counter complaint for invasion of privacy....there goes the neighborhood. This did not happen in the Villages.

My observation and personal opinion is that the partisan breakdown of the Political Forum, roughly mirrors the ideological persuasion of Villagers as reflected in voting trends in this area.

In the 2008 Sumter County presidential election where The Villages makes up a major portion of the electorate, it is interesting to note the result was overwhelmingly (63.01%) for McCain. Obama received only 36.04% of the vote. 82% of eligible voters went to the polls.

30,866 Sumter residents voted for McCain
17,655 voted for Obama

While I do not suggest that all the advocates for silencing political debate in an open forum are of a persuasion that tilts to the left....a compelling argument can be made to validate that claim. I will not elaborate because I will surely be censored for hijacking a thread in a general forum for political talk....even though I didn't start it.

It initially occurred to me that the banishment of the Political forum to the basement of TOTV was based on the sensitivity and/or bias of partisans who were distressed by hardball rhetoric that was inconsistent with their own views. I suspected and speculated that the administrators were being hoodwinked by those with alternate political motivations...like silencing powerful opposing views because logic and common sense precluded them from winning honest debate in an open forum. Pressure for censorship is easier in the private sector.

Before you hit the delete button....I no longer believe that was the case. I took some time off from posting...to the pleasure of some....but must confess to a little lurking to see which way the winds would blow. This thread gives abundant insight. I have seen the administrators make a sincere effort to support the Political Forum with ads, posts and other road maps to the forum. I congratulate them on that effort. True to form, the political forum bashers and critics revert to form and continue to criticize posters from the Political Forum....from a venue outside that evil forum. Weird irony. "Racists"?

I still believe an "opt out" switch would have been fairer and greatly reduced the suspicions about motivations and the "spanking" of political forum contributors. I believe the administrators when they state that opting out was a technically impossible alternative.

A tip of the hat to Bucco, BTK, rshoffer, JimJoe, Muncle and zcaveman (for making the most profound contribution by accident or design ROTFLMAO), et al for standing your ground. Thanks to Tony and Talkhost for having the courage to start and contribute to a "hot" thread. It's getting dark....I'm going to jump in the pool with my wife now.

[tony]

Political hit 100 members today.

[katezbox]

On TOTV if you want to see new posts you can scroll to the bottom of the forums page and see what is new. Frequently that meant non political posters became immersed in political threads. Personally that is not the way I browse this forum, so I just stayed out of topics I wasn't interested in.

And BTK, as someone who loves this country, I heartily wish that our political climate returns to less polarized times.

[jojo]

Well said Kate - too much polarization. I check the new posts when I'm on the road and frequently political represented 80% of the new posts rehashing the same topics. I like this system much better.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by Talk Host

What if you had a big party at your home and a fairly large number of the attendees entered into a loud political discussion in the kitchen and it became heated at times. Then some of the other guests started to complain to you that it was straining their enjoyment. What would you do?

Would you ask the political group to tone it down? Would tell them to shut up? Would you ask them to move their discussion outside? Would you ask them leave?

Or, would you tell the non-political participants to suck it up. What if some of them started to leave as a result?

Lets say for a moment that you went into your kitchen and mustered up the courage to tell the political participants to please respect your home and tone it down a little. Then one or more of them looked you in the eye and said, "this is America by God, and I have my first amendment rights to express my views anywhere and anytime I choose." Let's say you reminded them that this was your home and they were invited guests there, and they said, "it makes no difference, we'll do and say what we please, when we please." What would you do?

Now, lets say you ask the political discussion to step out to the lanai and continue their discussion there. At that point, several of them responded, "OUTSIDE, how dare you tell us to go outside, what do you think we are "second class citizens?" "Tell the others to go outside if they don't like what we are discussing, or tell them to not listen"

Okay, let's take this one step farther and say the political group is finally out on the lanai and you go to the dining room and join in the general party talk with the others. Now, several of the lanai group comes into the dining room and starts, "They sent us outside, so you pantywaists can't hear us, who the hell do you all think you are. Are you all happy now that those of us who want to discuss politics are sent away. I hope the host and hostess are happy with themselves for dissing us."

I'm curious how you would handle this situation.

I see your analogy, TH, and I was going to raise you another one. But when I started to write it inside my head, it began to turn into a mini-series.

I have to tell you that I do not think that business and politics can mix, unless you are in the business of politics. Business and politics just cannot mix. At least not for very long. And in today's political environment of such polarization, attempts at discussion seem to get lost or trampled or drowned out or whatever and that makes it even more difficult, actually impossible, to mix business and politics. (Hey, TH, btw, I didn't see you at that party or I would have introduced myself.)

Anyway, from the beginning of the political forum, I thought, "Uh, oh. Do they really want to do this? Politics and business? Bottom line? An eventual no-win."

But, hey, my opinion on the cost of doing business did not keep me out of that forum. It was not my business, after all. So I would go in there, every once in awhile, with my moderate opinions and my concerns for people who, although they work hard, cannot afford health care coverage.

And sometimes I would even take a little attempt or two at humor along. But then no more. I stopped. I had my reasons. And besides all that, there was that thing where I finally noticed that I could not keep myself out of there when the moon was full. (uh oh, I think it's waxing gibbous right now.)

Then came the change to the subscriber forum. Looked like a business decision to me. Business and politics cannot mix. Not for long. But I knew that from the start. I have known that since I was a kid, growing up around a little business. A little business that personal politics were always kept clear of.

Bottom Line Boomer

PS: If ever I do write my analogy for all this, and if it does indeed turn into a mini-series, and if I can get HBO interested, I hope all of you here will let me know who you want to play you. TH, I am thinking maybe Brian Dennehy for you. I think that's his name. That "Cocoon" guy. You look kind of like him in your picture.

[katezbox]

Boomer,

I like Catherine Zeta-Jones for me (hahahaha)!

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by Boomer

PS: If ever I do write my analogy for all this, and if it does indeed turn into a mini-series, and if I can get HBO interested, I hope all of you here will let me know who you want to play you. TH, I am thinking maybe Brian Dennehy for you. I think that's his name. That "Cocoon" guy. You look kind of like him in your picture.

Unfortunately I'm only an extra, but, given the choice, I'd be going for Paul Newman with height extenders if he was still alive! I've got the baby blue eyes.

[cashman]

Apathy is dangerous. Political correctness is dangerous.

Not getting involved in politics may destroy our great country.

Every resident of tv should read and participate in political
discussion.

[chelsea24]

I want to be played by Meryl Streep! Yeah! Do you think you can swing that Boomer! Yeah!

[tony]

I really am afraid to ask who should play me. That's the wrong thing to do. So I won't.

[Xavier]

Originally Posted by cashman

Apathy is dangerous. ********* correctness is dangerous.

Not getting involved in politics may destroy our great country.

Every resident of tv should read and participate in *********
discussion.

Thanks for your editorial/suggestion. Just click on the P O L I T I C A L Forum Box on the left side of any page, follow the sign up directions and you're on your way. Don't get eaten! If you are not back in a week or two we'll send in a recovery team! Just kidding, have a wonderful time.

[gnu]

Originally Posted by tony

Political has 97 members right now.

I believe that there were only 2 or three posts there in the last two days. I guess 95 or 96 members are just looky lookies. This is what some are saying, that people love to go there but think it's a bad place. Please, if you don't like what is in political don't sign up and then complain about whats said there. Don't be a "party" crasher and then complain about the party.

My one and only post to this particular thread.