[golfnut]

if you have a complaint about something in TV go to the villages.net and post it, there is link at the bottom of the page called CIC (community improvement council), send them an email with your issue, complaining on this site will not solve a thing, just my .02, the greens on the executive courses stack up pretty well when compared to the championship courses in TV and courses outside TV, some are better than others and some need some work....gn

[schotzyb]

Originally Posted by GatbTester

We all have specific complaints regarding the quality of grass, quality of seeding, etc. My area of specific complaint is in regards to the Ball Washers at almost every hole, they contain the filthiest, non soapy water you can imagine. It is terrible to use when cleaning your golf balls, as well as the lousy towels they use. Call them what you will. They lack the little touches that make big differences to me.

Every ball washer I attempted to use today at Palmer was bone dry.

I remember a Senior Executive in a major 500 Corporation who belonged to a private country club. He also played golf at a semi private club and it became clear that the semi private club had better greens and fairways than the very high priced private club. He told me one day that he told the green superintendent that (a) either he was not getting enough funds to have a good course or (b) he did not know how to do the job. Which was it?
This could relate to the Executive courses problems that are being raised. The question is "which is it"? I would suspect it is a little mixture of both since some meet good standards and some don't..
Maybe someone can help me as I honestly don't know the answer.Does some of the amenity fees paid go toward golf maintenance?

[ricthemic]

Originally Posted by BB14616

Please don't assume that all the Championship courses are in good condition. It just is not so. I played Orange Blossom a couple of weeks ago and it was horrible. Their greens used to be the best around, since the course is mature, but no longer. I happened to play with a fellow who personally knows the crew chief from OneSource who maintains the course, and apparently the chief was told to cut back this year on the overseeding(the courses are overseeded with rye in the winter. The rye is cold hardy, and gives us green fairways, greens and teeboxes in the winter when the bermuda or whatever the undergrass is, goes dormant). You really can see it on OB - the greens and fairways look like they have the measles - little spots of rye on the dormant undergrass. Mallory is in okay condition - I'd give it a 6 out of 10. Hacienda is pretty good but there are some bare spots on the greens, Cane is pretty good - maybe an 8 out of 10. Palmer charges the premium greens fees and they put the potential home buyers out there so they're going to keep up the conditions of that golf course. If you notice, other greens on golf courses in the area are in better condition than those in The Villages, and they have all experienced the frost. As the guy from OneSource said, if they had been overseeded properly, the frost would not be much of a factor. I noticed that the practice putting green at Sarasota is in fine shape, so they must have overseeded it properly, and obviously it wasn't hurt by the frost.

I think OneSource cut back on the overseeding to save some money, and I hope to heck someone is keeping an eye on them.

Another maintenance issue I noticed the other day was out at Lopez. I don't remember which hole it was, but I was in a greenside bunker and the sand was completely filled with little pebbles, probably one about every 2-3 inches. That is a real no no. You can damage your club, and you can't hit the sand before the ball - you'll hit a pebble instead. They must have gotten a cheap load of sand somewhere. The other bunkers were fine, and I've never noticed that problem anywhere else in The Villages, but again, possibly another cost cutting measure. The Villages pays OneSource to maintain these courses, and if they do a crummy job, we need to either let them know, or else find another company that can do a better job.

I don't play Executive golf so I can't comment on the conditions, but this place is advertised as a golfing community. If they don't maintain the courses, our properties will lose value to communities that have nice courses. I'm a golfer, and frankly, if all the courses are going to be like this, I will be moving. I don't think it is a question of us paying more - I think it is a question of having OneSource do the job they are already paid to do. The sad thing is - if you let things go, it becomes harder to get them back in good shape. Kind of lilke maintaining your house - if you keep at it and do the upkeep its much easier than having to replace things down the road. Sorry if I seem grumpy - I love The Villages and the golf here has been wonderful, but I'm really disappointed in the conditions this year.

Excellent Post. I played OB for the first time two weeks ago and do not care if I ever play there again. The greens were horrible. Played Palmer today. Greens are very fast due to lack of grass. They are very green like the tees due apparently from green paint.
What is weird is some exec's like saddlebrook and el santiago, as well as their practice greens have great greens while other exec's like Belmont, Amberwood etc suck.
We are new and have guest coming down cause we raved about the place (which everything but the greens is true) but will be totally embarrassed by these greens. Many villages report good greens on courses outside of the villages. They had the same weather so what happened? To me, this is an extremely important issue.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by schotzyb

Every ball washer I attempted to use today at Palmer was bone dry.

What did the club Pro say when you told him about your concern?

[schotzyb]

Couldn't find him; must have been at the radio station talking about his "pristine" greens.

[soonfl]

Is there anyway that a group could be formed (or maybe it exist) to have a owner / CDD members inspect and report conditions ( check lists / pictures) to give the developer objective feedback. A "caretakers club" perhaps?

I have know idea how funds are allocated for maintenance and renovation.
Can some one fill me in.

Is each CDD responsible for its own courses?
Have any of the older courses been renovated?
Is there a reserve set up to handle extraordinary problems( hurricane, tornado).

I believe that we all understand that seeding ,watering and fertilizer errors occur and that weather is sometime difficult. But we would like some assurance that problems have been identified and solutions are not left to luck , optimism and good intentions.

[golfnut]

I play at least one different course outside TV every week and play TV courses the other 6 days, IMO (remember it's MHO) the courses in TV are equal or better than any other course within the 20 miles we travel. IMO if you're not happy with the courses here you might want to get while the gettins good, for me I'M HERE FOR THE DURATION.....GN

[soonfl]

I was just trying to be constructive.

[golfnut]

i'm not upset at all, sorry if it came off that way....gn

[BB14616]

Originally Posted by ricthemic

Excellent Post. I played OB for the first time two weeks ago and do not care if I ever play there again. The greens were horrible. Played Palmer today. Greens are very fast due to lack of grass. They are very green like the tees due apparently from green paint.
What is weird is some exec's like saddlebrook and el santiago, as well as their practice greens have great greens while other exec's like Belmont, Amberwood etc suck.
We are new and have guest coming down cause we raved about the place (which everything but the greens is true) but will be totally embarrassed by these greens. Many villages report good greens on courses outside of the villages. They had the same weather so what happened? To me, this is an extremely important issue.

It is embarrasing when friends come. And like you said, even within our own community, some courses are good and others aren't, and they all experienced the weather conditions. In the past, we might have had one course that was not good. For example, the past few years Cane Garden was dry and hard, so we used to play Orange Blossum and Tierra because the greens were so terrific. But this season, it seems like about half the (Championship) courses have poor conditions, and it isn't even just the greens. The fairways are clumpy so you have patches of grass, then patches with no grass, so it is like playing out of a divot if your ball happens to land in the no grass area. I've never seen it like that here. I imagine the heat and rain we've had the past week will help things regenerate, but its been about 2 months of crap conditions, and here we are paying top dollar in greens fees.

I like soonFL's idea of forming a committee to report to the CDD on maintenance issues with the Executive and Championship courses, if they don't have one already. The question I ask myself, is even if the CDD does have a committee and is aware of the conditions, will they do anything, particularly if it involves spending more money? With so many people here this time of year, and the shortage of tee times, they seem to have no trouble filling the time slots, so is there an incentive for them to make the golf course conditions better?

[beartrack]

Sorry to say golfnut but, you did sound a bit angry. Look, I'm a fairly new resident here and I love this place and your suggestion that I "get" if I have a reasonable comment about the maintenance of the greens is a little unfair. The Villages affords us the best retirement lifestyle in the USA, that said however, every once in a while a little flaw raises it's ugly head ( have you been reading this website? ) It is, in my opinion, the right thing to do is, to open a discussion on something that bothers you and that you feel also affects your friends and neighbors, not to mention your property value. What I learned from this discussion so far, and I have you to thank for it is, how to voice my concerns on The Villages.net. I will take your advice and post my comments there. In closing, I played Oakley yesterday and Amberwood the day before and in my opinion the greens on those to courses should be an embarassment to whomever is responsible for their mantenance.

Oh Boy this will probably get me some "bad notes" but I feel it is right to raise it as a question. If the Golf Division were hiring personnel who felt free to raise their voices we would probably not be facing these critical points. If the golf division established a program of feedback and listened then the problems would not exist. It is logical to believe that complaints are not being brought forward, or someone is "turning their back" to the complaints as they either lack the knowledge as to how to fix the problems, or are not getting the funds to do the work or concerned about their jobs if they speak up? There are enough complaints to set the stage there is something wrong. The question is why they are not being addressed?

[saratogaman]

Recently, I've played Turtle Mound, Saddlebrook & Heron -- all greens were terrible! Putts bounce all over the place on the rough surface.

[villages07]

I'm not a good enough golfer to understand the fine nuances of good greens vs acceptable greens. Playing primarily the exec courses, I certainly have noticed an inconsistent quality in how they play.

Anyway, one clarification to note here for those who aren't aware. The championship courses are owned by the developer and he/his businesses determine the budget and priorities for maintenance.

The executive courses are supported by our amenity fees. Some of these courses are owned by the central CDD but many are still owned by the developer who gets a portion of the amenity fee for operation and maintenance.

Golfthevillages.com website has a "contact us" link where you can send in written comments about champ/exec/tee times, etc. Or you can call the golf division offices and register your concerns. Let 'em know about the extensive discussion here on TOTV, including comments from prospective buyers that golf conditions could affect their buying decision.