Thanks for following through and reaching someone who would take ownership. Not wanting to be too hard but the question is why did it take a call from you to get action? If it is his responsibility to see that the Exec. courses are in good shape and they are not then there is a question as to either his technical skills or communication skills. I know I may get some critizim for raising this question but I have a problem when someone does not do their job until they are brought to the table. As I understand it he said,
"He told me that based on many complaints that have come across his desk about the poor condition of some of the exec. greens. He went out and investigated the alleged problems. He said that I am right about the poor conditions that exist at some of the exec greens, especially in Marion county."
If he is the superintendent of the Executive courses why did it take all the complaints for him to go look at the Courses. He should have been aware of the problems before the complaints? Hopefully he will learn from this?

[Halle]

Thank You Beartrack!

I appreciate the information.

[Allen]

Thank you very much, beartrack, for taking the initiative and following through on this. Borrowing a quote related to a much more serious topic we must now, "Trust, but verify". Those of us who are not yet TV residents must "trust" that this issue will be completely resolved... and not resurface. Those of you who are there, hopefully will do the "verifying". Please keep us posted so that we can do our part as appropriate in the future.

Job well done... Thank you once again!

[gemorc]

On Wednesday, I played the Cherry Hill to Laurel Valley rotation at Palmer. The greens are definitley not in " pristine" condition. If bare ground and blotchy grass mean "pristine", I am in the wrong place. I made a comment at the pro shop desk, the pro was not in his office, their response, it must be my fault. " This is Palmer Legends, everything is first class here."

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by gemorc

On Wednesday, I played the Cherry Hill to Laurel Valley rotation at Palmer. The greens are definitley not in " pristine" condition. If bare ground and blotchy grass mean "pristine", I am in the wrong place. I made a comment at the pro shop desk, the pro was not in his office, their response, it must be my fault. " This is Palmer Legends, everything is first class here."

The quote you state from the person behind the desk at Palmer is so out of character from anyone I have encountered at any of the golf courses in the past eight years. Is there more to your story?

[beartrack]

As I have mentioned in a previous post, I sent out several email and made several phone calls in my quest to find out why some of our executive course greens are in such poor condition. I have already explained my conversation with Mr Basso. Well I just recieved another email in response to my email to the VCDD customer service center. My message was picked up by Carrie Duckett the supervisor of that agency and forwarded to Sam Wartinbee Director, District Property Management, his message to me is as follows:

Good afternoon,

I just finished looking at the greens with Ed Keene the superintendant for Valley Crest Golf at Amberwood and Oakleigh, I agree that they are not in the best of shape, however they have improved since I looked at them last month. Ed will be lightly verti-cutting them in the next two weeks and then lower the height of cut which will improve the roll of the ball. Regarding the greens at Baseline they are overseeded with rye grass which is much thicker than Poa Triv which we use at The Villages. The reason The Villages uses Poa Triv instead of rye is it will transition better (the Poa Triv dies out and the Bermuda grows) in the spring.
If you have any further concerns or questions please feel free to call me.

Sam Watinbee

Director, District Property Management
352 753 4022


There you have it. In my humble opinion I thought that Mr Basso's answer was more genuine then Mr. Wartinbee's. The greens at the aforementioned two courses have gotten a lot worse in the last month. To state that they have gotten better is just not so. If Mr. Wartinbee would check my past playing schedule he would see that over the last month I have played those courses many times and the only reason that I started this thread is because they and others have gotten much worse over the last thirty days. I will call or email Mr. Wartenbee tomorrow and let my feelings be known. I will keep you posted, or some of you can call him and keep all of us posted.

[otherbruddaDarrell]

Originally Posted by dillywho

With the cost of everything else rising, it's nice to have something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Not all of us have big retirement dollars and that is what the original intent of establishing this community was in the first place....to allow more people the opportunity to enjoy their remaining days/years after working so hard and so long. We are comfortable, but far from rich and do have to budget. Sorry, I don't mean for this post to sound tacky, but there is supposed to be something for everyone here.

I agree with you and think that too many people moving in here expect things to be like a private country club.
Yes, the courses could look a lot better........so can my own landscaping!
How many residents have a nice lawn and nice green landscaping right now???
Sure will be glad when around June comes along and most of the whining stops.

[BB14616]

Originally Posted by otherbruddaDarrell

I agree with you and think that too many people moving in here expect things to be like a private country club.
Yes, the courses could look a lot better........so can my own landscaping!
How many residents have a nice lawn and nice green landscaping right now???
Sure will be glad when around June comes along and most of the whining stops.

The thing is, the Villages has advertised itself as a country club, so naturally people expect country club conditions. And the purpose of the overseeding is to keep things nice and green. You could have a green lawn now if you overseeded it.

This is how the Villages advertises the executive golf courses: "The Villages Executive Golf Trail consists currently of 24 (and growing yearly) nine hole courses unique to The Villages. These courses are primarily par 3 holes with the occasional par 4 or par 5. Unlike many “executive courses” outside The Villages, ours are maintained at a high standard. "

This is what they advertise for the championship courses: "Savor the challenge and the variety of nine championship golf courses, each complemented with the dining and amenities you'd expect from a first class resort country club. As a Villages resident - you're automatically a member!"

So when people play golf at a public course like Baseline and find it to be in better condition than our courses here, naturally people are going to complain. We'd be foolish not to.

Is there anyone who actually believes that once you buy a home in The Villages that Executive golf is free for life? How are the costs associated with maintaining the course, paying the Ambassadors, etc. covered? The question is not if all are paying but how all are paying. It may be in the amenity fees, or some other method of raising revenue but somehow, somewere money is being raised to cover the expenses. I am surprised that in the TOTV notes questions are not raised as to where the revenue comes from and how it is being used?

[villages07]

REH.... it's public information. Exec golf course maintenance is funded by a portion of the amenity fees, the trail fees, guest fees. I've not yet come across a detailed budget from the central CDDs (who manage the amenities) that shows how much is spent on overseeding, funds for Pelican vs Amberwood, etc but there are budget statements that show sources of revenue and broad expense categories.

As has often been stated on this forum, "free for life" is not totally free. Something has to pay for the courses and their maintenance and operation. "Free" yes in that you don't have to pay a fee for each round you play if you walk and you are a resident. In my mind, it's quite a bargain.

[Whatever]

I'm still hearing that less seed of a cheaper quality is being used to save $$$$
on the greens and the tee boxes. When you speak to the powers that be, will you please inquire if this is so.

[Pturner]

Originally Posted by dillywho

With the cost of everything else rising, it's nice to have something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Not all of us have big retirement dollars and that is what the original intent of establishing this community was in the first place....to allow more people the opportunity to enjoy their remaining days/years after working so hard and so long. We are comfortable, but far from rich and do have to budget. Sorry, I don't mean for this post to sound tacky, but there is supposed to be something for everyone here.

Originally Posted by otherbruddaDarrell

I agree with you and think that too many people moving in here expect things to be like a private country club.
Yes, the courses could look a lot better........so can my own landscaping!
How many residents have a nice lawn and nice green landscaping right now???
Sure will be glad when around June comes along and most of the whining stops.

Good points, Dillywho and Otherbrudda.

Originally Posted by Regor

But don't you feel that if they had more money, they could spend more to keep the greens in better shape? I have almost always noted that if I pay $100 for a round of golf, the course is generally in better condition than say a course where I pay $15 or so.

If instead of free golf, I feel that The Villages could have much better course conditions if they charged an additional fee for golf on the executive courses.

This point also adds positively to the discussion, although I personally don't agree. Close to 80,000 people have moved here on the premise of "free golf" and an affordable retirement lifestyle. Undoubtedly "free golf" means "included" in the "affordable lifestyle" fees. The championship courses inside TV and the dozens of courses nearby are easily accessible to residents who are not interested in playing "free golf," with it's self-evident quality differences.

So much for my 2-cents. My larger (3-cent?) comment is that, to me, this is a model thread, thanks to all participants who have discussed and debated, agreed and disagreed, made points and counterpoints, without hostility or personal attacks. Those who felt strongly that changes were needed have taken action. Peeps on all sides of the issues raised have advocated well for their positions.

Here's to more discussions like this...

[beartrack]

Thanks PTurner for your comments. The only post that I thought was rude, was off target, and I do not believe that voicing a concern in a civil manner should be described as " Whining " Too bad, but I surrender!!!!

Over and out.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Whatever

I'm still hearing that less seed of a cheaper quality is being used to save $$$$
on the greens and the tee boxes. When you speak to the powers that be, will you please inquire if this is so.

I have to ask, where are you hearing this?

Villages07..I did not say nor imply that it was not a bargin or is a bargin and hopefully that is understood. There would have to be a lot more details to make that judgement. If you own a home in The Villages you pay an amenity fee regardles whether you walk or ride and allegedly part of these fees go to maintain and cover the costs of the Executive Courses.. I am completely happy living in The Villages but that does not mean I have lost looking at the accuracy of reports and questioning the accuracy.