[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by Ecuadog

Scion is no-haggle and their vehicles are among the most reliable on the road. I had heard that the Scion XB has tons of room inside for cargo (with the back seats down) and for my large self. On a whim, I tried one. I even fit comfortably in the back seat, with the front seat back all the way. Great little car.

We really like our '08 xB as well!!

Bill

[Penguin]

Whatever you do, dont even set foot in the door at Key Scales Ford.

[mickey100]

This has been a great thread - thanks to all!

[billethkid]

you will gain leverage as soon as it is recognized you will in fact get up and leave....most do not because the need to buy the new car is stronger than the the need to walk away....and the dealers thrive on that very human characteristic.

btk

[Geewiz]

Am I the only person who likes buying a car like you're haggling in Morocco?

All thr advice here is spot on re: knowing what the dealer paid for the car. Remember - invoice price doesn't factor in give-backs at the end of the quarter or month. Also, the dealer markup on dealer installed options is huge.

On the downside is that hot models offer you very little leverage. A model where stock is limited means closer to list or even above list. Welcome to capitalism.

But, if you choose a model where stock is plentiful and you wait until near the end of the month, get ready for the most fun you can have with your pants on.

Before you go in - research the actual dealer cost after givebacks. Add a couple hundred for fair profit - unless you're like me and enjoy the sight of blood.

First - don't trade in where you buy. These are separate negotiations and you have to be very good at multitasking to handle both at the same time because most dealer will make up a low-ball price on your purchase by nailing you on the trade-in. Sell it private or go to a place like Car Max -- after you fixed all obvious issues plus had your car detailed.

Back to buying fun. Negotiate a good price ... not your price ... but, a starting point. Start filling out the paperwork. Let this linger. Talk a lot. Slow the salesman down. Let him mentally count the pennies of his commission. Mentally - he's already spent it. Become a pal..a chatty one.

Sign and sign and when you get to the bottom start to hesitate. Think. Look distressed. Ask again, what is the out the door price. Moan and mumble you just can't do it....the salesman will call the sales manager. Repeat the act....don't forget being chatty and drop little treats like how convenient it would be to have the auto serviced at their facility and how you have friends also looking for a car.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Just do it with a soft voice and a smile. Don't get up and say this is a take it or leave it. Instead, take their time with funny stories that go on and on and on.

Enjoy the dangling carcass of their diminishing profit. Remember, it's more than just getting a good deal....it's the love of the game.

Cheers!

G

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by Geewiz

Am I the only person who likes buying a car like you're haggling in Morocco?

<stuff cut for brevity>

Enjoy the dangling carcass of their diminishing profit. Remember, it's more than just getting a good deal....it's the love of the game.

Cheers!

G

I too enjoy the whole process and I stress as you wrote, negotiation is done in a friendly manner. I have never done the whole signing hold out though, I got a kick out of that....

Never negotiate off the sticker (use the invoice) and never negotiate based on monthly payments, that is just confusing the matter at hand. I personally never buy a car on my first visit. You will be asked what can we do to put you in the car today, you need to be prepared. Know what they can sell the car for and offer less. This is also a good way to start to learn their real number.....

One point you made that I agree with is the popularity of a car matters. The best example of this in my life was when I bought my 2000 Nissan Altima. It had good write ups in the consumers papers, but was not popular when compared to the Accord or Camry. Due to this Nissan was having a $2000 factory to dealer kick back, which now puts my price at invoice - $2000 - <whatever else you can get>. The dealer will make you think that it is the sticker price - $2000... never use the sticker as a reference.

I was also shocked at the different cost from dealer to dealer at that moment in time that year. I could get that same car for invoice - $2000 + $100 at a dealer in N. Attleboro, MA. After knowing I could get the car for around invoice minus $2000, I ended up buying the same car for invoice minus $2000 minus $1200 from a large dealer in Quincy. It was the only car I ever bought where I sat with the sales person, he went through the cost line item by line item with invoice minus $2000 minus dealer holdback minus dealer incentive minus some other thing and I had nothing to say but sign me up.

On the other hand I am less comfortable negotiating a used car price. I always feel like the dealer has the upper hand knowing the exact costs. I find it more difficult to find their bottom number. As you said, it is not all about the money, it is the game....

BTW, That Nissan still goes up Rt 128 like the day I bought it with just a few more creeks and bumps

PS. My poor wife hates the game, but luckily loves me and I think deep down enjoys watching the game.

[nitehawk]

You buy a car maybe every five years or so --- the saleman does this every day ---- they also read forums about "how to buy a new car" The one place i have found with no bargining is What is the FitzWay?
when i bought my last car thats where i went and was happy with the way of doing busniss = no haggle thats the price
Fitzgerald Auto Malls New and Used Car Dealership Maryland - Pennsylvania - Florida - Washington DC - Virginia

[btf2008]

Also, if Scion offers anything that floats your boat, all their dealerships are no-haggle/one-price dealerships. You pay sticker price plus tax, title, and doc fees. Scion vehicles are sold via the Toyota dealerships.

Good point Bill...

We went to a Toyota dealership in Colorado to buy the wife a new Corolla. After working the deal and the salesmen going back and forth with "his manager" we decided to take a test drive in a shinny new Scion SC that caught our eye. My wife loved it. It was listed for less then the best deal we were about to get on the corolla and had more equipment, and it had a "cool factor". Needless to say the salesman wasn't happy with us and his displeasure was obvious. We bought the SC and have been totally happy with it. It will be a great addition to our golf cart once we move to TV permanently. Come on August!

[Mack184]

One other item..but it only works if you regularly buy the same brand of car and if you trade yours in every few years. Find a dealer & a salesman at the dealership that you like and stick with them. Most dealers will give you a better deal if you are a returning customer and have made use of their service department as well.

Also most dealerships have a service policy that puts their customers first in line. So if for example you go to Orlando or Tampa to purchase a car because you think you can get a better price from a larger dealer, and then want to bring your car to the local dealer for service, your needs won't be given the same urgency as they will give customers who bought their cars there in the first place.

That policy doesn't hold if you're travelling and break down on the road, but if you live locally and buy out of the area, they know it, and you will get bumped to the end of the line.

[wendyquat]

Thanks for the good advice! Still not sure where to find the invoice price and how much to offer over invoice to be a fair offer.

If I want a Ford, where to go other than Key Scales!

Thanks

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by wendyquat

Thanks for the good advice! Still not sure where to find the invoice price and how much to offer over invoice to be a fair offer. ............

Wendy, you can use Edmunds.com - search for a specific brand then the model. It will show you invoice price as well as letting you look up any incentives currently in effect.

What to offer the dealer? No fixed answer as it can be affected by things such as factory-to-dealer incentives, for example - also by how the dealer chooses to run their business (many cars sold for small profit per transaction, or lesser number of cars sold with higher margins per transaction). You can always start low and come up - never the other way around! :-)

With some dealers, they'll offer you their "best price" via working with them on the internet. It never hurts to challenge what they tell you is their best price, though!!

Bill

[wendyquat]

Thanks Bill!

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Originally Posted by wendyquat

Thanks Bill!

You're welcome!

Bill

[John_W]

I wanted a 2013 Hyundai Veloster 201 HP Turbo in white or silver and I needed automatic for my wife. This was a brand new version of the car, previous Velosters were underpowered at 130 HP. I found out online that the first shipment of 725 Turbos arrived last August. In September I read online that some dealers had started receiving the cars but usually only one per dealership and some dealers were asking $1000 over list price.

The 2013 Veloster Turbo automatic has a list price of $23,925. I went on KBB and looked up the fair selling price and that was $22,619. Then I searched everyday for two weeks on autotrader.com and cars.com within 100 miles for dealers with Turbos in stock. Finally on October 10th about ten Turbos showed up in central Florida but only two were automatic and both were silver. Red Hoagland Hyundai in Winter Haven had one and he had very good customer feedback. The other Turbo was in the same area at a Lakeland Hyundai dealer, but they had terrible customer feedback.

I saw the car on Red Hoagland's website and called their online number and the salesman said the car was available, he even took the phone outside and asked if I had any questions about the car as he was looking at it. I told him don't sell the car, I would be there in about two hours. On KBB I had priced my trade-in at $16,600. Two hours later I arrived at the dealership in Winter Haven, took a test drive. I told the salesman that I would pay $22,600 for the car and I wanted $16,600 for my trade. The salesman left the room for about one minute and returned to say, 'we have a deal'. Red Hoagland is a great dealership, unfortunately they are about 80 miles away down Hwy 27 near Legoland.

[mollypeanut]

Originally Posted by MikeV

I sold new and used cars for a while. Here is how I shop for cars knowing what is going on in the managers office first hand. I go to the dealership and find the car on the lot that I want to buy. I write down all the retail costs of the base price and options noting the delivery cost (which is not discounted). Then I go to a site like kbb.com and find out what the dealer cost is and what the fair price is for THAT car in my area. With that knowledge in hand I go to the dealer around the end of the month (more likely to take offers because the dealer is rewarded by the car company on sales by the month and year) and "steer" the sales person to that car. I test drive it etc. When it comes to price negotiation I know what the fair price should be and I stick to it. If they will not sell at the price I want I get up to leave. You will be amazed at how often they will then accept your fair offer. It used to be that a dealer would take as little as $100 over dealer cost but now it seems they want more.

All great information!!! And so true... I spent 26 years in the car industry I am only going to add one more thing... If any of you who are out there car shopping have USAA insurance... And many do... Check to see if there is an "ADDITIONAL" rebate on the make and model you are looking at.. You can contact USAA they should let you know.. DO NOT ask the sales person they will more then likely not know and will just tell you no...The rebate is from USAA.. Some domestic dealers have it.. also the foreign brands MB.. And I do mean additional..rebate. if there is one from the manufacturer it can usually be combined....Good luck!!