[rubicon]

Its all so confusing as to whom is friend and whom is foe?

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by katezbox

Sorry Advogado, I just don't buy it.

No one in their right minds would think the the Daily Scum is actually there to cover news. And the Sentinel should absolutely cover the story - although she is up to Part IV which I think is a bit much. The "major news" isn't that the Sun ignored this - it is the heavy handed techniques used against the folks at Relay. That is deplorable.


Of course newspapers publish stories to increase circulation and therefore sell (more) advertising...but they have a responsibility to report the truth - and to not willingly distort it.

One foundation of yellow journalism is overuse of hyberbole - at which Ms. Ritchie is so effective. Who are Morse's "hench men"? And her expose on the bond issue with the IRS predicted that Villagers would have to pay thousands of dollars of their own money without providing any support for these "facts."

All I am saying is that the developer is not as bad as she paints him, nor as angelic a father figure as others depict. He is a business man (and sometimes a greedy one) looking to make money.

With respect to your statement about Ms. Ritchie's articles on the IRS investigation: I have read all publicly available documents generated during the investigation. Have you? If you had, you might share some of Ms. Ritchie's outrage. Let me assure you that Ms. Ritchie's facts are correct, as is her concern about the potentially huge adverse impact on Villagers if the IRS sustains its position. (I think, however, that the impact would occur in a different way than her analysis indicates, but that is beside the point here.)

Again: Has anybody found any material factual inaccuracies in her reporting? You don't seem to be able to come up with any, although you clearly don't like the packaging in which she delivers the facts-- and I can accept that. Unfortunately, however, if it were not for Lauren Ritchie and the POA Bulletin, Villagers would have absolutely no way of obtaining news that reflects unfavorably on actions by the Developer or on The Villages, itself.

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by Advogado

With respect to your statement about Ms. Ritchie's articles on the IRS investigation: I have read all publicly available documents generated during the investigation. Have you? If you had, you might share some of Ms. Ritchie's outrage. Let me assure you that Ms. Ritchie's facts are correct, as is her concern about the potentially huge adverse impact on Villagers if the IRS sustains its position. (I think, however, that the impact would occur in a different way than her analysis indicates, but that is beside the point here.)

Again: Has anybody found any material factual inaccuracies in her reporting? You don't seem to be able to come up with any, although you clearly don't like the packaging in which she delivers the facts-- and I can accept that. Unfortunately, however, if it were not for Lauren Ritchie and the POA Bulletin, Villagers would have absolutely no way of obtaining news that reflects unfavorably on actions by the Developer or on The Villages, itself.

I agree wholeheartedly that the Sun is not a source of objective info on TV. It is essentially a marketing newsletter. We do not subscribe. For news we read the Sentinel and other publications on line and in weekly newsmagazines. The New York Times covered the IRS bond issue - in a way that presented the issues and was "fit to print.".

I do not agree that Ms Ritchie deals only in facts. I will ask again. Who are the Morse family's henchmen and what have they done? There are no facts that I can see supporting such a statement.

Henchman is a strong term, with a precise meaning. From dictionary.com:

1. an unscrupulous and ruthless subordinate, especially a criminal: The leader of the gang went everywhere accompanied by his henchmen.
2. an unscrupulous supporter or adherent of a political figure or cause, especially one motivated by the hope of personal gain: Hitler and his henchmen.
3.a trusted attendant, supporter, or follower.

That last of these may be what she intended?

Regarding the bonds. The Sentinel archives do not reach back that far. But Ms Ritchie posted this on TOTV..."this IRS investigation and about the way that the developer has used the community development districts to his benefit -- at terrible expense and liability to Villages residents. "

What expense and what liability? Potential, yes. Actual, no (to date). So again, another case of hyperbole with no support.

I realize that she is a columnist and not a "reporter." But keep in mind that free speech has it's limits - no one has the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. IMHO, that is all Ms. Ritchie is doing.

[Taj44]

[QUOTE=katezbox;330100...Regarding the bonds. The Sentinel archives do not reach back that far. But Ms Ritchie posted this on TOTV..."this IRS investigation and about the way that the developer has used the community development districts to his benefit -- at terrible expense and liability to Villages residents. "

What expense and what liability? Potential, yes. Actual, no (to date). So again, another case of hyperbole with no support.[/QUOTE]

If you will recall, in 1998 it was necessary for Villages residents to sue the developer Morse because of misuse of funds that were supposed to go towards maintence of Villages facilities. The class-action lawsuit contended monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner in the community had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Inc., the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse.

It was considered a long-shot case, but the residents won. Morse and the corporations behind The Villages agreed in a civil court settlement to pay $40 million over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation centers, swimming pools and other facilities. I would say this was a pretty good example of the developer using the CDD to his benefit. If the residents hadn't sued, he'd still be enjoying the use of the amenity fees.

[redwitch]

Cabo, don't know what happened to your post and link. It was there (obviously) when I went to check the link and gone when I was starting to reply. This is not going to make sense to many, but it will to you:

Read the whole thing -- a lot of vitriole and hyperbole, not much facts given. The author of the blog either assumes we know all of the facts, is afraid to post the facts because they're not accurate or has no clue of the facts himself. One important thing to remember is that this is simply a blog -- it is not a Lady Lake site. It is not a Lake County site. It is a blog by a concerned citizen.

I can't comment on much of what he wrote because I simplly don't know the facts. I live in Sumter County; can't vote in Lake County; have a tendency to only follow local issues that directly affect me (not one of my better traits, I'm afraid).

Given all of that, I'd say the blog has about as much merit as the hyperbole in Ms. Ritchie's columns: some true facts interpreted towards the author's views with a lot of venom tossed out toward the opponent (subject of the column/blog).

[Larry Wilson]

Originally Posted by Taj44

If you will recall, in 1998 it was necessary for Villages residents to sue the developer Morse because of misuse of funds that were supposed to go towards maintence of Villages facilities. The class-action lawsuit contended monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner in the community had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Inc., the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse.

It was considered a long-shot case, but the residents won. Morse and the corporations behind The Villages agreed in a civil court settlement to pay $40 million over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation centers, swimming pools and other facilities. I would say this was a pretty good example of the developer using the CDD to his benefit. If the residents hadn't sued, he'd still be enjoying the use of the amenity fees.

Good point.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taj44

If you will recall, in 1998 it was necessary for Villages residents to sue the developer Morse because of misuse of funds that were supposed to go towards maintence of Villages facilities. The class-action lawsuit contended monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner in the community had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Inc., the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse.

It was considered a long-shot case, but the residents won. Morse and the corporations behind The Villages agreed in a civil court settlement to pay $40 million over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation centers, swimming pools and other facilities. I would say this was a pretty good example of the developer using the CDD to his benefit. If the residents hadn't sued, he'd still be enjoying the use of the amenity fees.

I thought I remembered another reason and a lesser amount for this lawsuit. Can you tell us where this information can be located? Would it be in the POA archives?

Did you move into your second home in TV thinking this?

[bike42]

Originally Posted by Taj44

If you will recall, in 1998 it was necessary for Villages residents to sue the developer Morse because of misuse of funds that were supposed to go towards maintence of Villages facilities. The class-action lawsuit contended monthly amenity fees paid by every homeowner in the community had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Inc., the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse.

It was considered a long-shot case, but the residents won. Morse and the corporations behind The Villages agreed in a civil court settlement to pay $40 million over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation centers, swimming pools and other facilities. I would say this was a pretty good example of the developer using the CDD to his benefit. If the residents hadn't sued, he'd still be enjoying the use of the amenity fees.

Oh Please. The point of the lawsuit was that the older northern part of TV thought they were not getting a fair share of the amenity fees, that the funds were going disproportionately to facilities for the newer southern villages. The lawsuit never claimed that Morse was using the fees for his personal benefit.

[Mikeod]

Originally Posted by IowaParkersburg

If I had to pay $135.00 per month for my amenities and an additional $135.00 per month to the Villages developers for their toys and caviar, I would still be very happy with this place and never complain. We have lived several places overseas and all over the United States for comparison and The Villages, hands down, is the best we have ever seen. We would be more likely to feel guilty that we are taking advantage of the developers than the other way around. No Flames please, just put the cost of living here in perspective for a more positive point of view. Americans are greedy people, so stop looking for things to condemn The Villages for and you will find time to enjoy activities worth far more than your amenity fee.

Please try to differentiate between people who love the community (almost all of us) and those who have misgivings about the way the developer operates at times. It is possible to love what has been created while still expressing concerns about matters that affect us.

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by mikeod

Please try to differentiate between people who love the community (almost all of us) and those who have misgivings about the way the developer operates at times. It is possible to love what has been created while still expressing concerns about matters that affect us.

Excellent reply

[JenAjd]

Originally Posted by IowaParkersburg

If I had to pay $135.00 per month for my amenities and an additional $135.00 per month to the Villages developers for their toys and caviar, I would still be very happy with this place and never complain. We have lived several places overseas and all over the United States for comparison and The Villages, hands down, is the best we have ever seen. We would be more likely to feel guilty that we are taking advantage of the developers than the other way around. No Flames please, just put the cost of living here in perspective for a more positive point of view. Americans are greedy people, so stop looking for things to condemn The Villages for and you will find time to enjoy activities worth far more than your amenity fee.

GREAT points!!!! It's obvious that there will be the "nay-sayers and the yay-sayers" no matter what.....It's too bad that "some" have to try to find the negative in everything---giving no thoughts on how good they have it!

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by bike42

Oh Please. The point of the lawsuit was that the older northern part of TV thought they were not getting a fair share of the amenity fees, that the funds were going disproportionately to facilities for the newer southern villages. The lawsuit never claimed that Morse was using the fees for his personal benefit.

Great point. When your mind is made up it is easy to conform the "facts" to your view. What this subject needs is more light( facts ) and less heat.

[Taj44]

Originally Posted by mikeod

Please try to differentiate between people who love the community (almost all of us) and those who have misgivings about the way the developer operates at times. It is possible to love what has been created while still expressing concerns about matters that affect us.

Thank you Mikeod for your courtesy. For those who are interested, and please don't shoot the messenger, the link to the actual class action settlement notice is here: http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm It claimed monthly amenity fees paid by The Villages' 70,000 residents had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Incorporated, the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse. The claim was upheld in court with a $40 million settlement.


Here's another link to a Tampa newspaper story which gives a few more details. Of course, the settlement was reached with confidentiality clauses and the Morses' not admitting any wrongdoing. The story was carried in all the major news outlets. http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/St...develope.shtml

Gracie, no I did not know of the lawsuit when I purchased here, although I don't see why you would be interested in that or what it even has to do with anything?

I love the lifestyle here in The Villages as much as the next person, but let's face it, the Developer didn't act responsibly when he let those facilities decline and didn't provide for the required maintenance. He had to be forced into it by a lawsuit. It is a matter of public record.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taj44

Thank you Mikeod for your courtesy. For those who are interested, and please don't shoot the messenger, the link to the actual class action settlement notice is here: http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm It claimed monthly amenity fees paid by The Villages' 70,000 residents had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Incorporated, the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse. The claim was upheld in court with a $40 million settlement.


Here's another link to a Tampa newspaper story which gives a few more details. Of course, the settlement was reached with confidentiality clauses and the Morses' not admitting any wrongdoing. The story was carried in all the major news outlets. http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/St...develope.shtml

Gracie, no I did not know of the lawsuit when I purchased here, although I don't see why you would be interested in that or what it even has to do with anything?

I love the lifestyle here in The Villages as much as the next person, but let's face it, the Developer didn't act responsibly when he let those facilities decline and didn't provide for the required maintenance. He had to be forced into it by a lawsuit. It is a matter of public record.

Well Taj, those SOB Morses got caught and paid up. I am not going to worry about what they are planning now to hoodwink all of us and take our money because we have a lot of watch dogs who will. I know I can count on the people here who are permanently disenchanted about something to protect me.

[katezbox]

Originally Posted by Taj44

Thank you Mikeod for your courtesy. For those who are interested, and please don't shoot the messenger, the link to the actual class action settlement notice is here: http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm It claimed monthly amenity fees paid by The Villages' 70,000 residents had been misused by The Villages of Lake-Sumter Incorporated, the Village Center Community Development District and developer H. Gary Morse. The claim was upheld in court with a $40 million settlement.


Here's another link to a Tampa newspaper story which gives a few more details. Of course, the settlement was reached with confidentiality clauses and the Morses' not admitting any wrongdoing. The story was carried in all the major news outlets. http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/St...develope.shtml

Gracie, no I did not know of the lawsuit when I purchased here, although I don't see why you would be interested in that or what it even has to do with anything?

I love the lifestyle here in The Villages as much as the next person, but let's face it, the Developer didn't act responsibly when he let those facilities decline and didn't provide for the required maintenance. He had to be forced into it by a lawsuit. It is a matter of public record.

Taj - I agree that this was a long shot - and it worked. I applaud the POA for working for us. As you say, he didn't do right and ws caught out. I don't argue that the Morses are perfect - just that they built a better mousetrap.

I think that many seem expect more from the developer than a good home and wonderful lifestyle and view the Morse family as paternaistic. I see them as businessmen.

Lastly, I applaud Lauren Ritchie for bringing "Relaygate" to a larger community. I just don't think a four part article full of innuendos and hyperbole is necessary or helpful.