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  #16  
Old 02-15-2011, 11:36 AM
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TBugs - Please try to understand. My problem is not liking it here or or not liking what the developer has created. In fact, I love it here and think what they have done is remarkable and certainly unique. What I don't understand is, having created this wonderful community (and profiting enormously from it also) they need to deceive residents. It is well documented that the initial notices indicated the developer was "donating" the spaces for Moffitt. Only later did we find out that there was no "donation" at all. It was purely a business investment in a rental property at a prime location. What do you think would have happened if the initial story had simply said that the developer was going to put up a new building that would be able to house the new cancer center? There would still be a positive response since the main roadblock to the center was adequate space. To me, the developer would have seen and addressed a need and residents would see it that way as well. Why spin it to sound like a donation when it wasn't?

A little history also plays into my feelings. Many vinyl-sided homes south of 466 were shown to have faulty/less than ideal installation of the siding. This was confirmed by independent building inspections. Instead of holding the contractors' feet to the fire and making them adhere to the siding manufacturer's installation instructions, we were treated to denials and the ridiculous comment that after the tornado he saw walls torn off with the siding intact. So what!!! It was only after the news of the faulty siding got published outside the community and his credibility took a hit that these deficiencies were addressed.

So, my attitude is really one of disappointment. This community is amazing and should stand on its own without the need to embellish or obfuscate. Tell it like it is. Do the right thing.
  #17  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:12 PM
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Default Note the transition in naming from The Villages Moffitt Cancer Center

to The Moffitt Cancer Center in The Villages. And recently the change of the donation emphasis is now "Mission for Moffit".
It may be nothing more than a lot of people getting it wrong or mis stated and now clarified.
However when there are open questions with limited communications and the smog of uncertainty, one just wonders....some more.

As stated previously just check out the size of Moffit or MD Anderson facilities...check their staffing and what they offer. You will soon conclude TV presence is a satellite with the Moffitt name. Obviously what ever is planned for it meets Moffitts criteria. Kinda like if there is a machine in the neighborhood (like Lake Imaging), they can claim to offer that equipment. Theses comments are not meant to be pluses or minuses to anything. Just observations made or to be made.

What else is annoying about the smog of mis-information is TV could EASILY set the record straight through their multiple media holdings...but they are not....have not. Just wonder why.

btk
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  #18  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post
This will probably generate a lot of responses but here goes anyhow -

The Villages is a great place to live and the Morse family has done a wonderful job of making this slice of Heaven available to us. Where else could you be so happy for such a reasonable cost. $135 monthly amenity fee is almost unheard of anywhere - and for all we get!!

Greed on the part of the developer? The Morse family happens to be wealthy but this is America, folks. They developed The Villages and keep it beautiful. I begrudge them absolutely nothing and anyone would be foolish if they did. If you do not like it here, nothing is keeping you from leaving to go somewhere else.

If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. There are plenty of charities around who are totally separate such as Salvation Army, local food banks, donations directly to Red Cross, Boy Scouts, or whatever. Donate to your churches. Animal shelters need contributions. None of these are connected to the Morse family.

The POA does some good but it is also full of naysayers. Get that good feeling back when you moved to The VIllages and enjoy being here without griping. You never had it so good as you do right now!!!
Love of the Villages and love of the developer may well be mutually exclusive, as has been voiced by numerous people. Not to compare anyone to Hitler, but using an extreme example, a majority of Germans in the 1930s loved the improvements in the economy and the infratructure under the direction of the Nazis. Dictators often have widespread support of the people despite suppression of news, lying and stealing from the state coffers, because they can get things done without opposition, some of which benefit a great many people. I do not know the developers, and maybe their intentions are mostly honorable, but their lack of openness and disclosure certainly help raise doubts.
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  #19  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid View Post

What else is annoying about the smog of mis-information is TV could EASILY set the record straight through their multiple media holdings...but they are not....have not. Just wonder why.

btk
Maybe they'll come on here and set the record straight. Maybe they think that there is no record that needs to be set straight.

JLK
  #20  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:55 PM
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Default So what if The Villages is a nice place to live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post
This will probably generate a lot of responses but here goes anyhow -

The Villages is a great place to live and the Morse family has done a wonderful job of making this slice of Heaven available to us. Where else could you be so happy for such a reasonable cost. $135 monthly amenity fee is almost unheard of anywhere - and for all we get!!

Greed on the part of the developer? The Morse family happens to be wealthy but this is America, folks. They developed The Villages and keep it beautiful. I begrudge them absolutely nothing and anyone would be foolish if they did. If you do not like it here, nothing is keeping you from leaving to go somewhere else.

If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. There are plenty of charities around who are totally separate such as Salvation Army, local food banks, donations directly to Red Cross, Boy Scouts, or whatever. Donate to your churches. Animal shelters need contributions. None of these are connected to the Morse family.

The POA does some good but it is also full of naysayers. Get that good feeling back when you moved to The VIllages and enjoy being here without griping. You never had it so good as you do right now!!!
Why is the fact that The Villages is a nice place to live even slightly relevant to the controversy at hand? As I see it, the controversy arises from three basic issues, all related to the Developer's role in the so-called Moffitt fund raising and having nothing to do with The Villages lifestyle:

1. What can charitably (no pun intended) be described as misrepresentations being published in the Developer's newspaper in order to raise funds that will flow back to the Developer.

2. Total lack of transparency in regard to the arrangements between the Developer and Moffitt. Is the Developer a paid fund raiser? Is the rent normal rent, or somehow tied to the Developer's fund-raising efforts? Who knows exactly how the Developer is benefiting from the fund raising? Moffitt won't tell us.

3. The Developer's shameful attempt to shake down the American Cancer Society's Relay for Life for the Developer's own financial benefit.

Yes, we don't have to contribute to the fund raiser. But we also don't have to stand by and see our friends and neighbors doing so without their being informed about where their money is going.

Finally, as to your allegation that the POA is full of "naysayers": Those naysayers brought the class action that got you, the other residents of the Villages, and me about $40 million that the Developer was wrongfully taking from us. We all owe those naysayers a debt of gratitude. When you tell us that you have written the Developer a check for your share of that class-action settlement (call it $1,000), I will start to listen to your complaints about the POA being full of naysayers. Until you write that check, you may want to temper your name calling.
  #21  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post
This will probably generate a lot of responses but here goes anyhow -

The Villages is a great place to live and the Morse family has done a wonderful job of making this slice of Heaven available to us. Where else could you be so happy for such a reasonable cost. $135 monthly amenity fee is almost unheard of anywhere - and for all we get!!

Greed on the part of the developer? The Morse family happens to be wealthy but this is America, folks. They developed The Villages and keep it beautiful. I begrudge them absolutely nothing and anyone would be foolish if they did. If you do not like it here, nothing is keeping you from leaving to go somewhere else.

If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. There are plenty of charities around who are totally separate such as Salvation Army, local food banks, donations directly to Red Cross, Boy Scouts, or whatever. Donate to your churches. Animal shelters need contributions. None of these are connected to the Morse family.

Get that good feeling back when you moved to The VIllages and enjoy being here without griping. You never had it so good as you do right now!!!

Well said.
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Last edited by Bosoxfan; 02-15-2011 at 01:39 PM.
  #22  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post

... The Villages is a great place to live and the Morse family has done a wonderful job of making this slice of Heaven available to us. Where else could you be so happy for such a reasonable cost. $135 monthly amenity fee is almost unheard of anywhere - and for all we get!!

Greed on the part of the developer? The Morse family happens to be wealthy but this is America, folks. They developed The Villages and keep it beautiful. ...

If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. ...

... You never had it so good as you do right now!!!
I agree with all of the parts of your post that I quoted, (other than the part that states that the issue is deciding whether "to donate to the Moffitt Center," since fund-raising in question doesn't do that.)

Indeed, deciding whether to donate to "The Mission for Moffitt" was the point of this thread. I'd been trying to decide, I got my questions answered and I shared the answers with others who are deciding.

I sincerely don't understand what this has to do with TV being a wonderful place to live, or the developer having done a wonderful job making this slice of heaven available to us. I don't see what it has to do with the fact that we've never had it so good. This is about deciding whether to donate to "Mission for Moffitt".

I also struggle to understand the inability or unwillingness to distinguish among traits of genius, vision, acumen, ethics and personal integrity.

For example, it's possible to be a great businessman, produce a great product and be highly ethical. Bon Jovi and Warren Buffett pop to mind.
One can be a great business person, produce a wildly popular but flawed product and be highly ethical. Bill Gates comes to mind. One can be great business person, produce a popular, sought-after product and be highly unethical. Bernie Madoff and Ken Lay come to mind.

It is possible the Morse's possess all of these traits in abundance; it's possible they have great genius, vision and acumen and rate less well or even poorly or even pathetically on the ethics and/or personal integrity scales. Isn't it?

Or does it make more sense, as Tbug's and other posts in previous threads seem to me to imply, to accept or acknowledge no distinction among traits of genius, vision, acumen, ethics and personal integrity.
  #23  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
Why is the fact that The Villages is a nice place to live even slightly relevant to the controversy at hand? As I see it, the controversy arises from three basic issues, all related to the Developer's role in the so-called Moffitt fund raising and having nothing to do with The Villages lifestyle:

1. What can charitably (no pun intended) be described as misrepresentations being published in the Developer's newspaper in order to raise funds that will flow back to the Developer.

2. Total lack of transparency in regard to the arrangements between the Developer and Moffitt. Is the Developer a paid fund raiser? Is the rent normal rent, or somehow tied to the Developer's fund-raising efforts? Who knows exactly how the Developer is benefiting from the fund raising? Moffitt won't tell us.

3. The Developer's shameful attempt to shake down the American Cancer Society's Relay for Life for the Developer's own financial benefit.

Yes, we don't have to contribute to the fund raiser. But we also don't have to stand by and see our friends and neighbors doing so without their being informed about where their money is going.

Finally, as to your allegation that the POA is full of "naysayers": Those naysayers brought the class action that got you, the other residents of the Villages, and me about $40 million that the Developer was wrongfully taking from us. We all owe those naysayers a debt of gratitude. When you tell us that you have written the Developer a check for your share of that class-action settlement (call it $1,000), I will start to listen to your complaints about the POA being full of naysayers. Until you write that check, you may want to temper your name calling.
As usual, your comments are right on target. Well said.
  #24  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:22 PM
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Default Talk Host....100% correct....

there may be no need to set the record straight....it may well be straight as is!!

btk
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2011, 01:39 PM
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Are donations tax deductible? Or is that question another can of worms?


.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2011, 02:07 PM
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As usual, your comments are right on target. Well said.
I also agree with Advogado - except I do think the last paragraph is a bit strong. In the past the POA has been anti-developer and negative. I think that has changed for the better - a POA that can see both sides and negotiate on our behalf is a wonderful thing.

Chuck - I think challenger's question on the 501 (c) (3) name and status of the charity is to help determine if our contributions are tax deductible.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post
This will probably generate a lot of responses but here goes anyhow -

The Villages is a great place to live and the Morse family has done a wonderful job of making this slice of Heaven available to us. Where else could you be so happy for such a reasonable cost. $135 monthly amenity fee is almost unheard of anywhere - and for all we get!!

Greed on the part of the developer? The Morse family happens to be wealthy but this is America, folks. They developed The Villages and keep it beautiful. I begrudge them absolutely nothing and anyone would be foolish if they did. If you do not like it here, nothing is keeping you from leaving to go somewhere else.

If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. There are plenty of charities around who are totally separate such as Salvation Army, local food banks, donations directly to Red Cross, Boy Scouts, or whatever. Donate to your churches. Animal shelters need contributions. None of these are connected to the Morse family.
The POA does some good but it is also full of naysayers. Get that good feeling back when you moved to The VIllages and enjoy being here without griping. You never had it so good as you do right now!!!

Most of the time I don't agree with you but this time your spot on.Not anyone here knows the facts but claim to have heard or know somebody that does.The facts will come out then voice your opinions. It just doesn't make sense to get all rattled til you know the TRUTH.
  #28  
Old 02-15-2011, 03:34 PM
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This discussion is not limited to this forum. I just returned from a one week cruise and there were about 100 Villages residents on board. Every one that I talked to was tuned into this and not necessarily from this forum.

There was talk of "character" and a parallel drawn by some to the Montana woes.
  #29  
Old 02-15-2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk Host View Post
Has anybody thought about the fact that selling homes in The Villages is the #1 priority of the developer and that the more renowned names that are associated with The Villages, the more attractive it would be to locate here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietman View Post
I thought the donations were going for equipment that will belong to the Hospital Alliance - not Moffit. If true the answers to the questions are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgammon6 View Post
Correct Quietman. All the equipment purchased with the donations will belong to The Villages Health System. Therefore the answers to the three questions is no.
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Originally Posted by Tbugs View Post
If you do not want to donate to the Moffit Center - don't donate. No one is forcing you to donate. [/B]
The succinct , stunning genius of the above posts is so refreshing and relevant. Thank you.

  #30  
Old 02-15-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pturner View Post
Indeed, deciding whether to donate to "The Mission for Moffitt" was the point of this thread. I'd been trying to decide, I got my questions answered and I shared the answers with others who are deciding.

I sincerely don't understand what this has to do with TV being a wonderful place to live, or the developer having done a wonderful job making this slice of heaven available to us. I don't see what it has to do with the fact that we've never had it so good. This is about deciding whether to donate to "Mission for Moffitt".

I also struggle to understand the inability or unwillingness to distinguish among traits of genius, vision, acumen, ethics and personal integrity.

For example, it's possible to be a great businessman, produce a great product and be highly ethical. Bon Jovi and Warren Buffett pop to mind.
One can be a great business person, produce a wildly popular but flawed product and be highly ethical. Bill Gates comes to mind. One can be great business person, produce a popular, sought-after product and be highly unethical. Bernie Madoff and Ken Lay come to mind.

It is possible the Morse's possess all of these traits in abundance; it's possible they have great genius, vision and acumen and rate less well or even poorly or even pathetically on the ethics and/or personal integrity scales. Isn't it?

Or does it make more sense, as Tbug's and other posts in previous threads seem to me to imply, to accept or acknowledge no distinction among traits of genius, vision, acumen, ethics and personal integrity.
Very clear analogical reasoning .
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