[MikeN]

Agree with this sentiment. We have contributed to the project but with resistance the project is bringing something is very wrong. Refund the money and move on

[jimdecastro]

Originally Posted by Retired55

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

I appreciate the tone and content of your message.

I am the administrator of one of the three Newell FB pages - and also a member of the AED committee - I understand your concerns. These two functions have NOTHING to do with each other, however. Other fundraising events have been on the page. The page's main function is to share with very few exceptions agreed to by members.

The program is vital in my opinion - I paid in Citrus Grove and paid again after I moved to Newell. We kept the fee the same as Citrus Grove. We have NO idea how many people live in a house, so the fee - like Amenities Fees - are per household.

I agree with you 100% that there should be no strongarming and no one should EVER be asked why they are not donating. We had a meeting recently and this exact topic was discussed at length. Hopefully we are taking steps to correct this, and we are focusing on VPSD stats and information on the benefits of AED from outside sources (The Daily Sun did a recent article, for example).

As the Facebook admin, I have seen a couple of posts the asked why they were not supporting and posted that is not an appropriate question or I removed the reply.

The VPSD tells us where the devices go and how many we need. Newell is approximately 9 minutes from the nearest Fire House. There is an AED at Franklin - when it is open. But AEDs in Rec Centers can only be used on Villages facilities. While CPR is ALWAYS the first and most important step, AEDs are vital to increase the chance of survival.

I hope this was helpful. You see my name here and can message me.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by bobeaston

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

Well said sir!

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

[JamesLove]

My respectful suggestion is to simply avoid over-thinking the issue.

On a yearly basis the cost is less than $20. If you can’t afford to pay then don’t.

If you would like to be involved in the organizing committee or as a responder then do so. If not then don’t.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by MandoMan

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

If you were to have an event in your home, most likely a firefighter or EMS professional would be the responder. Both are pretty seasoned in gaining entry. If you live alone, maybe consider investing in an alert system especially if this is of concern to you.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

From Harvard University:

“It’s theoretically better than CPR because it can restart the heart, whereas CPR is merely a stopgap.” One study found that a defibrillator-CPR combination improved the survival rate over CPR alone (23% versus 14%).

True but unless you have that AED in your closet, the minutes waiting for the unit should be used to do CPR. In any setting immediately shake for response, while checking for pulse, or breath. Begin CPR.

One doesn’t sit and watch a non breathing human waiting for a unit. Stopped counting after 100 events, and not once did anyone wait for those pad to be slapped on, even with the unit just outside the door.

So even with a full cart with drugs and opened unit ready to go CPR is first, waiting for that CLEAR announcement.

There are thousands of retired medical people in TV. It’s a bonus when someone has experience or steps away because they have had enough

[Carlsondm]

25 AEDs? What a deal. Linden Isle has 2, supported by a $60 donation. How many AEDs per person did they plan for?
Who ever decided to run your project is an autocrat/poor communicator, forcing their priorities on you. You have a right to make noise.

If you don’t donate, do they withhold services to you? Is this a one time donation? These devices need maintenance. If they didn’t tell me what we are purchasing and how the program will be run, I would hesitate to donate. Needs better organization and leadership.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

If you were to have an event in your home, most likely a firefighter or EMS professional would be the responder. Both are pretty seasoned in gaining entry. If you live alone, maybe consider investing in an alert system especially if this is of concern to you.

Actually the fire department has program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry.

We have fall alert on our Alexa and yes it was activated when a was alone and took a bad fall. Calls went to my contacts, within seconds. Since they are all medical each responding appropriately to their task

[Maker]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

Originally Posted by asianthree

Average TV response from EMS is around 3-8 minutes given experience in TV, since 2010.

There is an app for your phone called Pulse Point. Next time you hear sirens, open that app and look for the call. Note the time for when that call initiated.
I am about 1 mile from a fire station, and the typical amount of time that passes is longer then 8 minutes for 95% of the calls. And they are still in route to the call. That's not very good. IMO, it's awful for a paid department. Even subtracting 2 minutes drive time, 6+ minutes to get out the door leaves a lot of room for improvement.
Someone having a heart attack needs help a lot faster than that. The "golden window" of less than 4 minutes is the goal to have CPR started if there is any hopes of a good outcome.
The AED program also gets trained help moving asap. Not one, but many people. Some will start CPR. Some will grab the AED. Nearly every time these neighbors arrive well before EMS. It's more than just buying a machine.

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

The AED program also trains about what is the right thing to do. That made up example is NOT how people are trained.

Originally Posted by bobeaston

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

EXACTLY !!

But please remember that CPR + AED is not a miracle cure for a heart attack. Even with both on scene, survival rates are very low, but there is a chance a life can be saved. Hovever, without them, they will die 100% of the time.
Somebody having a heart attack has several factors that caused that to happen. Those conditions don't vanish when help arrives. The goal is to keep the patient viable until advanced life support can intervene, and get them to a hospital with all the modern life saving equipment and medicines are available.

[M2inOR]

Each Village may have hundreds of homes, perhaps even 1,000, 2,000, or more.

To have one organization to handle takes a lot of responders and managers, as well as thousands of dollars. That is a huge task.

Here in Marsh Bend, I am the coordinator for our neighborhood of 103 homes. We have 2 AEDs, and asked for $100 from each home to get the project started. We got about 80% participation, and a few homeowners contributed more than what was asked. Even a few of the homes that were rented contributed.

My wife and I are the overall neighborhood coordinators. We have a private email list, a private Facebook group, a periodic newsletter, and a monthly social.

We call ourselves the Marsh Bend Reserve.

We have approximately 15 primary responders, and have trained about 22 people.

Yes, not everyone believes in the overall AED project, but that is ok and understood.

I know some of the other coordinators south of 44, and am very thankful to other coordinators and VPSD who helped us get started.

It takes a bit of work to get started, as well as serious project management skills.

Good luck, and thank you to the volunteers who start and maintain these efforts.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by MrChip72

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

Wow. This thread caused me to look into some review. Found much better than a review here. Shockable Rhythms | ACLS.com

Been a while since my last CPR course. Are they still just recommending compressions at a rapid rate without intervening "breaths"? Never mind. Shamed myself into googling it. Are Rescue Breaths Necessary During CPR? - HSI So, 15 and 2 still the ratio and one-one thousand, two-one thousand still the rate? TIA

[KsJayhawkers]

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

Agree 100%!!! Your CPR instructor provided you horrible information. I am hoping you misunderstood and he/she is not telling students AED's are more effective.

[Andyb]

Originally Posted by Retired55

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

There is no way they need 25 AED units, 90% of the time the responders will be doing CPR.

[jimdecastro]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

This is the best answer. Get VPSD involved no need to reinvent the wheel. They have done this many times.

Here is the program: https://districtgov.org/departments/...DHAED_0124.pdf

We are working with the VSPD closely.