[Randall55]

///

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

And again, that person took events that occurred across who knows how long and many different renters and described it as her every day life. Much of what she describes I don't want happening to me at all, some of it would not bother me at all, some of it is in no way limited to renters.

But just be honest. Describe things that occur to you and provide actual frequency to it, e.g. "just over the last year, this is what I have had to deal with (or whatever time period those events have occurred). If the problems are that bad, no exaggeration or hyperbole is required to make the problems felt. If you have to exaggerate them exponentially, then maybe the problem isn't that bad. My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate.

Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

I am guessing that each villa has 3 bedrooms. What if there are 4 people staying in the rental or 6? This would result in blocked driveways and streets as she stated. And, lots of trash left out when it is not collection day.

Have you had a newcomer in your neighborhood? Do they ask you for information, directions or recommendations? Do they ask to borrow something? Are they trying to be friendly? Not so bad if it is one newcomer, but over, over, and over again?

Problem with shouting, yelling, children screaming, I can see it! Vacationers tend to be loud. I can also see many drunks who just came back from the square. P#ssing on her lawn, howling at the moon, arguing getting it on,...Yeah! I can see that too! I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news. Why do you believe she is exaggerating?

I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You really think that?????

Try running hair salon from your home.

That's an internal restriction so probably wouldn't be enforced anyway.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I thought it was pretty clear that her posts did not represent an average day for anyone with a STR nearby.

I agree that your opinion is just as valid as mine, but I disagree with your opinion 100%.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

But as a collage of snippets, I think it did convey the message about pitfalls of STRs. My only point is that the identity of TV is an active 55+ retirement community. Most of us expected that and bought into it. Yes, change happens, but a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of most. And it is completely unnecessary. History tells us that the developer has no trouble selling homes as quickly as he can build them, even without a single sale to "investors". Hopefully "the family" has the wisdom to realize that.

I think that a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of all. Where the disagreement comes is if that is what is ocurring. The problem is small (NOT THE EFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEM!] It has the potential for growing large as you state with hyperbole (shantytown? Really????) , and efforts to prevent that should be taken.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And there ARE things that can be done to halt this trend in its tracks. There are 2 posters on these threads that would have us believe that STRs are just fine, they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. WRONG.

Please provide post numbers on this thread or the other where anyone has stated or implied that they are just fine, that they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. You won't find a single one.
You will find posts that attempt to refute the frequency of the issues, that relay personal experiences that have not been negative, that disagree with the methods that people want to use to address the problem. Why is it necessary to attribute positions to people that they have in no way conveyed just because they have not jumped on your bandwagon? Here is a recommendation. If you think someone on this thread has that position, ask them. Do you support STRs? Do you think there are no problems with STRs? Do you think nothing can be done about STRs? Stop saying that they have a position that they have clearly not stated! I have never commented on how things could be done. So I will assume that I know whom you are talking about on that (even though you attributed that both people). In that person's most recent post on the other thread, they listed several things that have been offered that they felt would not work and why. They offered the suggestion they thought WOULD work. You and everyone else has the right to disagree with their opinions. But stop saying they or anyone else has said nothing can be done. THAT is a lie.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

It has been done other places.
One of these 2 posters claimed that Orlando did not or could not require the property owner to be present and could rent out their entire property. WRONG.
...

That statement is a lie. The person claimed that Orlando previously forbade STRs and was grandfathered under the state law which says they cannot be forbidden. They CORRECTLY asserted that the new regulations in Orlando were actually a relaxation of rules against STRs, not an increase. They stated that certain bodies in the villages do not have the authority to enact similar rules because it is outside the scope of their authority. They stated that other bodies in the villages do have the authority but posited that they do not have the motivation or the will. I guess I could be wrong on your lie, but please provide the number of the post that supports your statement.

Two people on this thread have not 100% supported the statements by you and the others. They have corrected the inaccuracies and offered differing opinions on the success of certain methods.

An intelligent person would thank these two for helping to sharpen and refine your statements and methods. IF (proverbial) you would listen to them, as you move forward in efforts to fix the problem, you would take the avenues with the most likely chance of success, and you would be putting forth arguments that do not contain lies, mistatements, or exaggerations.

[Two Bills]

If you live in a STR blighted area, get a few neighbors together, knock up a few BIG signs, and patrol outside the sales offices.
No one gives a **** about complaints on TOTV. but get prospective buyers asking questions, and maybe someone will listen.
Could be a fun day out.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I thought it was pretty clear that her posts did not represent an average day for anyone with a STR nearby. But as a collage of snippets, I think it did convey the message about pitfalls of STRs. My only point is that the identity of TV is an active 55+ retirement community. Most of us expected that and bought into it. Yes, change happens, but a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of most. And it is completely unnecessary. History tells us that the developer has no trouble selling homes as quickly as he can build them, even without a single sale to "investors". Hopefully "the family" has the wisdom to realize that.

...

In another post she related that these snippets happen over the winter with 3-month renters and over the summer. I get the impression that these snippets were collected over several years and that they involve ALL rentals and not just STRs.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Cybersprings

I agree that your opinion is just as valid as mine, but I disagree with your opinion 100%.


I think that a wholesale transformation into a motel shantytown is contrary to the expectation of all. Where the disagreement comes is if that is what is ocurring. The problem is small (NOT THE EFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEM!] It has the potential for growing large as you state with hyperbole (shantytown? Really????) , and efforts to prevent that should be taken.

Please provide post numbers on this thread or the other where anyone has stated or implied that they are just fine, that they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. You won't find a single one.
You will find posts that attempt to refute the frequency of the issues, that relay personal experiences that have not been negative, that disagree with the methods that people want to use to address the problem. Why is it necessary to attribute positions to people that they have in no way conveyed just because they have not jumped on your bandwagon? Here is a recommendation. If you think someone on this thread has that position, ask them. Do you support STRs? Do you think there are no problems with STRs? Do you think nothing can be done about STRs? Stop saying that they have a position that they have clearly not stated! I have never commented on how things could be done. So I will assume that I know whom you are talking about on that (even though you attributed that both people). In that person's most recent post on the other thread, they listed several things that have been offered that they felt would not work and why. They offered the suggestion they thought WOULD work. You and everyone else has the right to disagree with their opinions. But stop saying they or anyone else has said nothing can be done. THAT is a lie.
That statement is a lie. The person claimed that Orlando previously forbade STRs and was grandfathered under the state law which says they cannot be forbidden. They CORRECTLY asserted that the new regulations in Orlando were actually a relaxation of rules against STRs, not an increase. They stated that certain bodies in the villages do not have the authority to enact similar rules because it is outside the scope of their authority. They stated that other bodies in the villages do have the authority but posited that they do not have the motivation or the will. I guess I could be wrong on your lie, but please provide the number of the post that supports your statement.

Two people on this thread have not 100% supported the statements by you and the others. They have corrected the inaccuracies and offered differing opinions on the success of certain methods.

An intelligent person would thank these two for helping to sharpen and refine your statements and methods. IF (proverbial) you would listen to them, as you move forward in efforts to fix the problem, you would take the avenues with the most likely chance of success, and you would be putting forth arguments that do not contain lies, mistatements, or exaggerations.

You are joking, right?

I mean you have to be kidding. You don't think those 2 posters are defending STR aggressively???? Get real.

[Randall55]

Originally Posted by Randall55

/// Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

I am guessing that each villa has 3 bedrooms. What if there are 4 people staying in the rental or 6? This would result in blocked driveways and streets as she stated. And, lots of trash left out when it is not collection day.

Have you had a newcomer in your neighborhood? Do they ask you for information, directions or recommendations? Do they ask to borrow something? Are they trying to be friendly? Not so bad if it is one newcomer, but over, over, and over again?

Problem with shouting, yelling, children screaming, I can see it! Vacationers tend to be loud. I can also see many drunks who just came back from the square. P#ssing on her lawn, howling at the moon, arguing getting it on,...Yeah! I can see that too! I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news. Why do you believe she is exaggerating?

I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.

///

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

... There are 2 posters on these threads that would have us believe that STRs are just fine, they pose no problems, and there is nothing that can be done. WRONG. ...

Just in case my remarks resemble one of those two posters....

I have little feelings for or against rentals of one day, one week, one month, one quarter, or one year. They are all the same to me. My concern, as I put into post #122 somewhere, is having government take away even more of my rights/freedoms/ability to do what I want. Whether it's the height of a flagpole, the color of a driveway, or the number of visitors I have in my home, I don't want the government interference. I agreed to some restrictions when I moved to Florida and more when I moved to the Villages but that's enough, no more.

Different complaints on here about STRs involve dogs, trash, kids, noise, and general existence. With the exception of general existence, where a resident wants to have the street to themselves and not be bothered by other people, none of those problems should have to be accepted. But at the same time, none of those problems are unique to renters (short term or long).

We don't have a law against loud music after 10PM when coming from a rental house, we have a law against loud music after 10PM. Similarly, we don't have the right to stop our neighbor from playing loud music at 3PM if he is a permanent resident and we don't have that right for rentals either. If a neighbor is violating an ordinance, inform the proper authorities, renter or not. We already have (too many) laws, use them.

If you want to change the laws regarding rentals, learn what can and cannot be done and how to do it. Demanding that the CDDs create a law to set a minimum duration for a rental is ridiculous. Ignoring the existing Florida law shows a lack of seriousness. Suggesting that guest passes only be given out to those staying more than 30 days is foolish. Implying that every STR is a problem and every Villager is suffering because of STRs is such an overly broad generalization that the rest of the statements can't be taken seriously. Take the time to learn what is possible and what has failed in the past - it will save a lot of time and frustration.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Randall55

Ten rentals on her street. If 2 people stay in each home, 20 transient people. Do you believe at least one or two is capable of doing the things she stated? What if there are 20 different transients the next week, then the next? You don't see that there could be problems?

This is SOOOO exhausting. IF ONE WOULD READ MY POSTS, you would see that I stated "My take is the problem is very bad for her, just be honest in what you relate." That was in the post you responded to, not one of the many others where I admit that there are problems. Once again,[Point 1] someone is attributing to someone a statement or position that they did not make, then trying to argue with that. Because it is usually the same people, I am starting to think it is intentional. Can't argue with what I actually say, but they don't like me, so to argue with me they must make up things that I supposedly said and then argue with that, or merely insult me for posting at all.[/Point1]

Originally Posted by Randall55

I see crazy and inappropriate things happening in the squares frequently. And, I read about the worst in the news.

Yes and many of those things are done by Owner/Residents. The vast majoritiy of issues I have with the villages are with owner/residents and specifically dog owners. Should I start clamoring for them to be prohibited?

Originally Posted by Randall55

Why do you believe she is exaggerating?

Because she was and she admitted to taking what happened over a much longer period and describing it as if it was a typical day. It wasn't even any single day.

Originally Posted by Randall55

I believe the owner(s) of the rental(s) have no desire to resolve the issues. He/she got their rent money. Done deal! Do you think they are going to try and stop any of these issues? No! The renter would demand his money back! Some of the owners live out of state or it is corporate owned. How is she supposed to get them to check out their rentals?

Tell me, how many days could you handle of this? 1, 5, 10? You stated some of the things wouldn't bother you. Which ones? You are ignoring how many renters she can see in one month, let alone in one year.

a. I never stated she was supposed to get them to check out their rentals. See point 1 of my post.
b. Some of the things I don't want to experience even 1 day. Again, I never claimed they weren't a problem. See point 1 of my post.
c. I am not ignoring how many renters she sees in one month. See point 1 of my post.
d. Things that wouldn't bother me:
1 The renters are on the lanai naked. I spend ZERO time looking into my neighbors lanai.
2. Their children are running around. I like seeing youth and vibrancy in the villages. I intentionally go to church outside of the villages because I have to be honest, seeing only us old people and all the ravages that time has done on many of our bodies/health every day weighs me down. I am energized when I see young families. I am energized when I see my grandkids running around in my back yard. I have neighbors who have a very small back yard and I have a large one for the villages. I have seen them attempt to keep the kids playing only on their property. I have went over, introduced myself to the kids and grandkids, thanked them for their courtesy and then INVITED them to use my yard to play.
3. You wake up and trash has been put out when it is not collection day. This has happened on many occasions when neighbors will be leaving for a trip the a day or so before trash day. This hurts me how????
4. Animals ripped open the bags and trash has littered your yard. This would AND DOES bother me. But the only animals we have in our neighbor hood are dogs, cats and alligators. See my earlier point on pets.
5. Or they need some information, or they want directions, or recommendations. I like people. I like interacting with people. I like helping and sharing when I can. I don't feel like I go out of my way to help as many people in this life as I should, so when they come to me with an opportunity to do so, and all it takes is some information or recommendation, I am thrilled.

There are others. But since I really don't think the question was sincere or that that what I wrote will actually be read rather than intentionally misconstrued, I'll stop with these.

[tophcfa]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

No one gives a **** about complaints on TOTV. but get prospective buyers asking questions, and maybe someone will listen.

Exactly

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Just in case my remarks resemble one of those two posters....

I have little feelings for or against rentals of one day, one week, one month, one quarter, or one year. They are all the same to me. My concern, as I put into post #122 somewhere, is having government take away even more of my rights/freedoms/ability to do what I want. Whether it's the height of a flagpole, the color of a driveway, or the number of visitors I have in my home, I don't want the government interference. I agreed to some restrictions when I moved to Florida and more when I moved to the Villages but that's enough, no more.

Different complaints on here about STRs involve dogs, trash, kids, noise, and general existence. With the exception of general existence, where a resident wants to have the street to themselves and not be bothered by other people, none of those problems should have to be accepted. But at the same time, none of those problems are unique to renters (short term or long).

We don't have a law against loud music after 10PM when coming from a rental house, we have a law against loud music after 10PM. Similarly, we don't have the right to stop our neighbor from playing loud music at 3PM if he is a permanent resident and we don't have that right for rentals either. If a neighbor is violating an ordinance, inform the proper authorities, renter or not. We already have (too many) laws, use them.

If you want to change the laws regarding rentals, learn what can and cannot be done and how to do it. Demanding that the CDDs create a law to set a minimum duration for a rental is ridiculous. Ignoring the existing Florida law shows a lack of seriousness. Suggesting that guest passes only be given out to those staying more than 30 days is foolish. Implying that every STR is a problem and every Villager is suffering because of STRs is such an overly broad generalization that the rest of the statements can't be taken seriously. Take the time to learn what is possible and what has failed in the past - it will save a lot of time and frustration.

You're 100% correct, except........

Who is MORE LIKELY to be playing loud music or having a drunken party after 10PM, or any of the other complaints----your neighbor of the last 10 years or a renter staying 3 days?????

It is not a level playing field. Yes, a long term resident or renter can pose the same problems as a STR, BUT IT IS FAR LESS LIKELY. (and yes, I can already see one contrarian getting ready to ask for the statistics on that assertion, but I think we all intuitively know it to be true). I don't care for government intervention or restrictions either, but some of these "freedoms" are what we give up by agreeing to move into a DEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY. Compared to some other deed restricted communities, some owners here are getting away with murder. (No, I don't have statistics on that either, but to call it "a lie" is way over the line)

Now, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in. Bottom line, if we adopted Orlando's CURRENT STR restrictions, it would probably end the STR problem here. And no one should claim it CAN'T be done, since they already did it.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You're 100% correct, except........

Who is MORE LIKELY to be playing loud music or having a drunken party after 10PM, or any of the other complaints----your neighbor of the last 10 years or a renter staying 3 days?????

It is not a level playing field. Yes, a long term resident or renter can pose the same problems as a STR, BUT IT IS FAR LESS LIKELY. (and yes, I can already see one contrarian getting ready to ask for the statistics on that assertion, but I think we all intuitively know it to be true). I don't care for government intervention or restrictions either, but some of these "freedoms" are what we give up by agreeing to move into a DEED RESTRICTED COMMUNITY. Compared to some other deed restricted communities, some owners here are getting away with murder. (No, I don't have statistics on that either, but to call it "a lie" is way over the line)

Now, I couldn't care less if someone (not you) wants to parse words about whether Orlando's STR restriction are more or less restrictive than whatever was in place prior, nor could I care less whether Clearwater's laws were "grandfathered" in. Bottom line, if we adopted Orlando's CURRENT STR restrictions, it would probably end the STR problem here. And no one should claim it CAN'T be done, since they already did it.

I would say it is just as likely that a particular renter would be playing loud music. But to your point, the more times you roll the dice the better your chances of rolling a seven.

I acknowledged that I accepted the restrictions that came with the Villages. There is no question that there is a section in the document that allows for amendments. Things can change, the restrictions can change, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

Yep, things can change and STRs can be affected. But can we at least stay on the path of realistic possibilities and not stray into the "if I were god and the state of Florida didn't already have these laws on the books" kind of arguments?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I would say it is just as likely that a particular renter would be playing loud music. But to your point, the more times you roll the dice the better your chances of rolling a seven.

I acknowledged that I accepted the restrictions that came with the Villages. There is no question that there is a section in the document that allows for amendments. Things can change, the restrictions can change, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or support it.

Yep, things can change and STRs can be affected. But can we at least stay on the path of realistic possibilities and not stray into the "if I were god and the state of Florida didn't already have these laws on the books" kind of arguments?

So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You are joking, right?

I mean you have to be kidding. You don't think those 2 posters are defending STR aggressively???? Get real.

I am not joking. I am not kidding.
If I am one of the 2, then I know that you are 100% wrong and that you have not bothered to read my posts with the intent to understand what I was saying.
If one of the 2 is Bill14xx, then I know that you are 100% wrong because I actually took the time to read his posts, not make up positions for him.
If one of the 2 is Brian..., then I don't know what his real feelings or motivations are because he hasn't expressed them, but I do know that you are 100% wrong on what his posts have actually stated and not what you and others keeping making up and attributing to posters.

So who is left?
I have asked, who do you think supports STRs. You (I think) responded that that violates the rules because we are not to address posters directly. I think that is an absolute copout. Well over half of the post direct their point directly to someone or about someone. Merely stating that I think these 2 posters have agressively defended STRs is not a violation, or not even close to other posts as far as violation. The problem with doing that though is that you know their is ZERO basis for the position, IF YOU READ WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WRITING.
I think this is the fourth time or fifth time I will ask.
PLEASE PROVIDE THE POST NUMBER OF THE POST IN THIS THREAD OR THE OTHER WHERE SOMEONE SAID THEY WERE IN SUPPORT OF STRS OR DEFENDING THEM.
There are over 500 posts between the 2 threads and has been correctly stated, the vast majority of people posting are against STRs. Sure one of you can find one post that actually defends STRs or supports STRs.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

So how did Orlando "circumvent" Florida laws already on the books and implement the STR restrictions that I already posted????

That's going to take some time to research but it's an interesting question. (though you will understand if my heart isn't into finding the answer... kind of reminds me of a joke involving a guillotine and an engineer)

I was referring more to the BoCC eliminates STRs or the CDD writes a law kind of ideas.