[billethkid]

If we were talking about lowering the temperature in the pools by 10 degrees because 20 residents think it is better for ones health.

How long would it take for the majority to squash the idea?

The numbers which too many seem readily willing to ignore.......speak loudly and clearly the issue is not about improving the safety of TV residents. It is all about the wants of a few. The statistics do not support the arguments in favor of the striping. Nobody is saying these folks do not have a personal issue. But we do not operate a population on the basis of emotion and individuals.

[billethkid]

On a second note. Let's assume some how or other the powers that be (what ever and who ever that means) agree the sritping should be done.
They agree to the $300-$400,000 to do the intial job and $100,000 annual maintenance (put any number you want in here that makes you happy).

The first order of business is to find the funding. This action is not currently a line item in the budget. To move forward the powers that be have a choice of going over budget (a no no in any well run entity), raise revenue (should be a no no for most of us) or not do something else that is in the budget to allow the striping project. What are we willing to give up that is currently in the budget?

Do not be lulled into the trap of it is only pennies a day per person. This turns into hundreds of dollars increase of resident fees SOMEWHERE down the line. Hence, once again, in my opinion, the numbers just do not support doing this project.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by bagboy;111***2

Your entire post seems to be all about golf cart driving on the Multi Model Paths. When you are here full time and using the MMPs, you will quickly discover that walkers, joggers, runners, bikers, trikers, elliptical riders, etc use these paths along with golf carts. And that is the point of the engineers and those with experience in transportation and public safety.
In their opinion based on their education and work experience, the MMP'S will become "less" safe for anyone using the MMPS who is not operating a golf cart. Especially with center striping, a golf cart highway mentality will be enhanced. That mentality exists already with many cart operators. In their opinion, side striping would not make the MMPs safer, especially for the above mentioned, in fact it could make travel more dangerous.
So do we want to stripe or line the paths for the benefit of a very small minority of golf cart drivers, and forsake the safety of all other users? All of the pro striping advocates opinions are based solely on their personal preference, and what they think is best for the MMPs. Not based on any research or past education or professional experience.
Relating to your past experience, would it be a good idea for a patient to get your diagnosis and course of treatment, only to go home and follow the next door neighbors recommendation who happens to be a mailman? Regardless of what happens, you'll still love being here.

I haven't seen the engineering report, and my first inclination would be to defer to the experts (quid pro quo). Was their conclusion really that golf cart drivers of average ability and eyesight who respect their obligation to share the paths with pedestrians and bikers will all of a sudden transform into reckless road hogs indiscriminately plowing into others because someone painted a center stipe to aid visibility and safety due to some new found "highway mentality"? If so, God help us when we drive our cars on public highways.
Also, I have no idea of how many are in the "very small minority" of golf cart drivers. Apparently there were enough that district 4 did it and district 8 is considering it. Yes, the district representatives may be on some sort of egomaniacal power trip following their own agenda rather than the will of their constituency, but I thought that privilege was reserved for the US Congress.
Again, with more experience, I may change my position

[biker1]

Being drunk, stupid, and inattentive is probably the cause of many car accidents. Perhaps it is also true with golf carts ;-)

Originally Posted by looneycat;111***5

well the engineer did say the accidents aren't due to lack of striping but rather are due to us all being drunk, stupid and inattentive. not exactly a confidence builder as far as the value of the study in which they set out to prove their prior recommendations were correct.

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by billethkid

On a second note. Let's assume some how or other the powers that be (what ever and who ever that means) agree the sritping should be done.
They agree to the $300-$400,000 to do the intial job and $100,000 annual maintenance (put any number you want in here that makes you happy).

The first order of business is to find the funding. This action is not currently a line item in the budget. To move forward the powers that be have a choice of going over budget (a no no in any well run entity), raise revenue (should be a no no for most of us) or not do something else that is in the budget to allow the striping project. What are we willing to give up that is currently in the budget?

Do not be lulled into the trap of it is only pennies a day per person. This turns into hundreds of dollars increase of resident fees SOMEWHERE down the line. Hence, once again, in my opinion, the numbers just do not support doing this project.

Stop!!! It is unfair to use logical, common sense analysis on this thread.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Walter123

This is one of the top ten stupid ideas discussed on this site. What good would side stripping really do? Isn't it enough that if your tires hit the grass along side the path you know you're off the path? You're not going to fall of the edge of the earth. Some say that an MMP is the same as a highway which have stripping. Highways also have guard rails. Should we also install guard rails? If we did then we could put side bumpers on our carts and we could bounce off the rails. I would not be opposed to center striping nut side striping is a waste of time and money. Pay attention to your driving instead of depending on a white stripe to keep you safe.

You don't happen to work with Jeff Dunham do you?

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by billethkid

On a second note. Let's assume some how or other the powers that be (what ever and who ever that means) agree the sritping should be done.
They agree to the $300-$400,000 to do the intial job and $100,000 annual maintenance (put any number you want in here that makes you happy).

The first order of business is to find the funding. This action is not currently a line item in the budget. To move forward the powers that be have a choice of going over budget (a no no in any well run entity), raise revenue (should be a no no for most of us) or not do something else that is in the budget to allow the striping project. What are we willing to give up that is currently in the budget?

Do not be lulled into the trap of it is only pennies a day per person. This turns into hundreds of dollars increase of resident fees SOMEWHERE down the line. Hence, once again, in my opinion, the numbers just do not support doing this project.

So it is about the money! Are you a softball player? $500,000 to upgrade softball facilities. Your ok with this? This benefits maybe 5% of the population where as striping the paths would improve safety for all Villagers. Maybe there sould be a cost benefit analysis done on all projects. What is the benefit and return on flowers in the roundabouts? As the districts make up their budgets, striping would be a continuing line item, just like flowers.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by bagboy;111***2

Your entire post seems to be all about golf cart driving on the Multi Model Paths. When you are here full time and using the MMPs, you will quickly discover that walkers, joggers, runners, bikers, trikers, elliptical riders, etc use these paths along with golf carts. And that is the point of the engineers and those with experience in transportation and public safety.
In their opinion based on their education and work experience, the MMP'S will become "less" safe for anyone using the MMPS who is not operating a golf cart. Especially with center striping, a golf cart highway mentality will be enhanced. That mentality exists already with many cart operators. In their opinion, side striping would not make the MMPs safer, especially for the above mentioned, in fact it could make travel more dangerous.
So do we want to stripe or line the paths for the benefit of a very small minority of golf cart drivers, and forsake the safety of all other users? All of the pro striping advocates opinions are based solely on their personal preference, and what they think is best for the MMPs. Not based on any research or past education or professional experience.
Relating to your past experience, would it be a good idea for a patient to get your diagnosis and course of treatment, only to go home and follow the next door neighbors recommendation who happens to be a mailman? Regardless of what happens, you'll still love being here.

Streets are for motorized vehicles, but there are walkers, bicycles, tricycles, etc on the streets as well. I have yet to see one complaint or objection about side stripes on the streets.

The MMPs are used mainly by golf carts. The striping, as proposed, will take up 6 inches on either side of the path. I don't see walkers, bicycles, tricycles operating this close to the edge.

I am a biker and I do not ride on the MMPs. I would much rather ride in the streets. I feel much safer.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Mleeja

So it is about the money! Are you a softball player? $500,000 to upgrade softball facilities. Your ok with this? This benefits maybe 5% of the population where as striping the paths would improve safety for all Villagers. Maybe there sould be a cost benefit analysis done on all projects. What is the benefit and return on flowers in the roundabouts? As the districts make up their budgets, striping would be a continuing line item, just like flowers.

Sort of my point in my rather verbose post above. Not every expense benefits every individual in the community. But overall the goal, within financial constraints, is to provide as wide a variety of services and infrastructure to as many as feasible---kind of a community service quid pro quo---you pay for mine and I'll pay for yours.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Mleeja

So it is about the money! Are you a softball player? $500,000 to upgrade softball facilities. Your ok with this? This benefits maybe 5% of the population where as striping the paths would improve safety for all Villagers. Maybe there sould be a cost benefit analysis done on all projects. What is the benefit and return on flowers in the roundabouts? As the districts make up their budgets, striping would be a continuing line item, just like flowers.

5% of 100,000 population is 5,000 people!

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

65 accidents on MMPs over 3 years....average 22 per year = .022%

.022% (22 MMP accidents in one year) compared to 5.0% (5000 woodshop users).

Not a good comparison.

Assuming it was passed for a moment. Yes it would become a line item in the budget. That does not change the three options for finding the funding.
>Eliminate something else that provides the funds.
>Raise the revenues i.e. fees/assessments etc. to allow the striping funding without giving up anything.
>based on priorities, like it or not; anything that affects .022% would not earn a spot in the budget....hence do nothing.

Since the striping will be either a numbers decision, one of the above must happen.
Or an emotional and or political decision neither of which changes the method of finding the funding.

We have the luxury of the developer being involved in much of what we enjoy in our Villages life style. So budgets, fees, adding projects or increasing costs are not readily apparent to us......as long as our fees stay the same....eh?


Budgeting is not a very popular subject because of the disciplines required to do it right.

Ya just cannot do everything EVERYBODY wants.

22 divided by 100,000 = .022 %

[tomwed]

If one does have a golf cart accident where is it voluntarily reported?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by billethkid

5% of 100,000 population is 5,000 people!

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

65 accidents on MMPs over 3 years....average 22 per year = .022%

.022% (22 MMP accidents in one year) compared to 5.0% (5000 woodshop users).

Not a good comparison.

Assuming it was passed for a moment. Yes it would become a line item in the budget. That does not change the three options for finding the funding.
>Eliminate something else that provides the funds.
>Raise the revenues i.e. fees/assessments etc. to allow the striping funding without giving up anything.
>based on priorities, like it or not; anything that affects .022% would not earn a spot in the budget....hence do nothing.

Since the striping will be either a numbers decision, one of the above must happen.
Or an emotional and or political decision neither of which changes the method of finding the funding.

We have the luxury of the developer being involved in much of what we enjoy in our Villages life style. So budgets, fees, adding projects or increasing costs are not readily apparent to us......as long as our fees stay the same....eh?


Budgeting is not a very popular subject because of the disciplines required to do it right.

Ya just cannot do everything EVERYBODY wants.

22 divided by 100,000 = .022 %

99%+ of all citizens in the US do not need handicap access to public facilities
Less than 1% do, yet billions have been spent to accommodate these unfortunate individuals.

Is that a "good comparison"?

[billethkid]

Yes!

[billethkid]

It certainly is a better one.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by billethkid

5% of 100,000 population is 5,000 people!

From the Engineering Evaluation:

2011 thru 2014

340 total reported accidents
65 of the 340 occured on MMP's (all others on streets and parking lots)
12 of the 65 occured at night

65 accidents on MMPs over 3 years....average 22 per year = .022%

.022% (22 MMP accidents in one year) compared to 5.0% (5000 woodshop users).

Not a good comparison.

Assuming it was passed for a moment. Yes it would become a line item in the budget. That does not change the three options for finding the funding.
>Eliminate something else that provides the funds.
>Raise the revenues i.e. fees/assessments etc. to allow the striping funding without giving up anything.
>based on priorities, like it or not; anything that affects .022% would not earn a spot in the budget....hence do nothing.

Since the striping will be either a numbers decision, one of the above must happen.
Or an emotional and or political decision neither of which changes the method of finding the funding.

We have the luxury of the developer being involved in much of what we enjoy in our Villages life style. So budgets, fees, adding projects or increasing costs are not readily apparent to us......as long as our fees stay the same....eh?


Budgeting is not a very popular subject because of the disciplines required to do it right.

Ya just cannot do everything EVERYBODY wants.

22 divided by 100,000 = .022 %

To keep your comparisons consistent try dividing the cost by the number of users of the MMPS, it might be a bit higher. And based on your logic the flowers are goners.... Ya just cannot pick the numbers you want.