[rustyp]

Originally Posted by rustyp

I would be interested in seeing the yes / no vote summation of all the districts sorted by resident elected representatives Vs developer appointed representatives.

Does anyone know where to get this data? It may be a clue as to what the silent majority thinks - either way. This is intended to be a constructive request - please let's not get into who is more qualified to make the decision.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

Rather than stripping all districts, let District 8 stripe as an experiment. As people travel through this district on the multi-modal trails, let Villagers see for themselves if stripping the trails does help at night. As no one else in the world has the data or experience to help with this issue, we may be required to try it here on a small scale. Spend a little to save a lot or try it as you may grow to like it.

"WE" do not make decisions here. Thank Goodness. Every day someone would have a wonderful idea to change things until the prices rise and the essence of what it is now is lost.

Did you read the report that said that 12 accidents occurred at night under circumstances that "varied widely"? Most of us Girl Scouts are pretty sure of the "wide variations" of many of those accidents at night or could make a pretty good guess.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by biker1

I suspect it will be difficult/impossible to collect data that will allow for the testing of the hypothesis that striping improves safety, to a statistically significant degree. In the absence of real data, typically you would want to go with the opinion of an expert. His opinion was not to stripe. South of 466A, there are some blind curves with embedded reflectors in the middle of the MMP. They serve double duty as they "thump" if you go over them with your tires. These seem like a good idea.

I'm not so sure there is a MMP expert in the whole country. In this case, I would compare the TV MMPs with 50,000 golf carts worth of traffic to safety measures commonly used for roads such as stripes, stop/yield signs, etc. As a retired engineer, I have conducted a study of the CCD4 center stripe and have concluded it adds some level of safety. Where do I send my invoice?

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

"WE" do not make decisions here. Thank Goodness. Every day someone would have a wonderful idea to change things until the prices rise and the essence of what it is now is lost.

Our elected representatives do. Ergo the striped MMP in CCD4.

[outlaw]

If you can't drink and drive safely, stay home!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Our elected representatives do. Ergo the striped MMP in CCD4.

Do you mean 8?

[biker1]

"Expert" is relative - he is someone who knows more than others. Soliciting the advice of an expert and then deciding not to follow it is hard to fathom. Feel free to send your invoice to anyone who will pay it.

Originally Posted by outlaw

I'm not so sure there is a MMP expert in the whole country. In this case, I would compare the TV MMPs with 50,000 golf carts worth of traffic to safety measures commonly used for roads such as stripes, stop/yield signs, etc. As a retired engineer, I have conducted a study of the CCD4 center stripe and have concluded it adds some level of safety. Where do I send my invoice?

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

Rather than stripping all districts, let District 8 stripe as an experiment. As people travel through this district on the multi-modal trails, let Villagers see for themselves if stripping the trails does help at night. As no one else in the world has the data or experience to help with this issue, we may be required to try it here on a small scale. Spend a little to save a lot or try it as you may grow to like it.

District 4 already did it last year. Take a ride up on the cart paths by Nancy Lopez golf course and see. The district did the centerline stripe. I am not down in The Villages at the moment and I can't remember if they also striped the sides. As mentioned here recently darkness, rain, and tinted windshields are a perfect storm. My own opinion is side striping may be the way to go. It's about be able to see where the path is especially when being blinded by an oncoming cart. My natural tendency is to momentarily look at the side in this situation to limit the blinding. Also I would suspect the side stripes would last longer - less tire contact then the centerline stripe.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by outlaw

I'm not so sure there is a MMP expert in the whole country...

You got that right, outlaw. I've mentioned that several times before. The only thing I disagree with in your statement is the "not so sure" part. I'm sure.

Compared to roadways and other ubiquitous forms of transportation, there are no experts on MMP's. Transportation engineers, which I am one, may study MMP's and have some knowledge others do not, but MMP's have not been around long enough or in enough quantity for experts to exist. There is simply not enough history, experience or data.

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by biker1

I suspect it will be difficult/impossible to collect data that will allow for the testing of the hypothesis that striping improves safety, to a statistically significant degree. In the absence of real data, typically you would want to go with the opinion of an expert. His opinion was not to stripe. South of 466A, there are some blind curves with embedded reflectors in the middle of the MMP. They serve double duty as they "thump" if you go over them with your tires. These seem like a good idea.

I would agree with you except that I am not sure that this expert is an expert on golf cart multi-modal paths by this definition of “ having or showing special skill or knowledge because of what you have been taught or what you have experienced”. How many hours has this expert driven stripped multi-modal trails at night? Was this expert taught golf cart multi-modal design in school? Where is the data to back up what he is saying? I believe that data on golf cart multi-modal trail design at present is too abstract to say yes or no with any authority. So, what should we do now?

[pgc4340]

Originally Posted by Mleeja

It has always been about the money. Striping was a good idea until the cost was published.

Most people living in The Villages live on a fixed income. Even though the cost would not effect my standard of living, even a minimal cost might be a problem for others. Perfectly understandable! As the years go by, retirement income does not go as far, so adding a dollar here and a dollar there to living expenses adds up.

[villagetinker]

It is interesting that in all of the discussions, I see lots of comments about money, safety, and none regarding the engineer's letter, where he commented about consistency in the golf cart lane marking, and possibility liability for NOT following the engineers study.. So my take on the situation is that with CDD4 and possibly CDD8 going rogue, they are creating a worse situation for ALL of the residents of these CDDs while providing a potentially limited safety improvement for the end users. Also, consider the situation where someone not real familiar with the golf cart paths goes from one of the MARKED areas to an UNMARKED area under less than optimal driving conditions. These locations maybe accidents waiting to happen.
I see both arguements, for and against striping, and I have no personal opinion, however, I am very concerned about the possibility of INCONSISTANT markings.
I hope all of the parties can get together and agree to a consistent solution for all of the paths.
Please do not shoot the messenger, thank you.

[biker1]

Again, "expert" is a relative term; someone who knows more than others. You presumably want to make decisions based on input from people who have a greater probability of being correct, in the absence of definitive data. This is actually pretty common; being asked to render an opinion when definitive information is lacking. Otherwise, you may as well just flip a coin. Presumably, the CDDs had some reasons to consider that the engineering firm they retained possessed some level of expertise in this area. The real question you should be asking is "why did the rogue CDDs decide that they know more than the engineering firm they retained"?

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

I would agree with you except that I am not sure that this expert is an expert on golf cart multi-modal paths by this definition of “ having or showing special skill or knowledge because of what you have been taught or what you have experienced”. How many hours has this expert driven stripped multi-modal trails at night? Was this expert taught golf cart multi-modal design in school? Where is the data to back up what he is saying? I believe that data on golf cart multi-modal trail design at present is too abstract to say yes or no with any authority. So, what should we do now?

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Do you mean 8?

4 - center striped for months, now. Try it, you'll like it.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by villagetinker

It is interesting that in all of the discussions, I see lots of comments about money, safety, and none regarding the engineer's letter, where he commented about consistency in the golf cart lane marking, and possibility liability for NOT following the engineers study.. So my take on the situation is that with CDD4 and possibly CDD8 going rogue, they are creating a worse situation for ALL of the residents of these CDDs while providing a potentially limited safety improvement for the end users. Also, consider the situation where someone not real familiar with the golf cart paths goes from one of the MARKED areas to an UNMARKED area under less than optimal driving conditions. These locations maybe accidents waiting to happen.
I see both arguements, for and against striping, and I have no personal opinion, however, I am very concerned about the possibility of INCONSISTANT markings.
I hope all of the parties can get together and agree to a consistent solution for all of the paths.
Please do not shoot the messenger, thank you.

I don't put much credence in this engineer's conclusion. I believe he was giving the customer the answer they were looking for. Before attacking me, this is just my feeling. I personally witnessed many studies written to support what the customer was looking for. To me, it is common sense to safely drive on a cart path with a striped line down the middle. If someone is so confused then they should not be driving, period.