[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by biker1

You need to "own the lane" in order to avoid being squeezed by cars. That is part of cycling 101. I ride BV and Morse regularly and don't have issues. The one time I rode the MMPs I had concerns. Again, the majority of serious cyclists prefer the roads for safety reasons and the quality of the ride. I am sure you like your motorized bike but the majority of serious cyclists are their own engines, are clipped in to their pedals, and having to stop and unclip at every Village entrance is not something most people want to do. You are comparing apples to oranges.

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. )

[biker1]

Yes, occasionally that happens. It is a pretty cowardly thing to do. I do know people who have taken down license plate numbers and called the Sheriff. I believe there is a law on the books about intimidating cyclists.

Originally Posted by tomwed

If you are cycling on the MMPs at 10 mph then you may not feel too threatened but I still believe it is a dangerous place to be. If you like to ride at 20 mph the MMPs are not a place you want to be.

Unless I am riding an e-bike at 19 mph. Is that correct? As a serious biker you probably experienced taking over a lane in the villages and still having someone pass you on your left and getting too close to your shoulder just to make their point.

[biker1]

I agree that it is safer to ride in a group on the roads, witnesses are good ;-).

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. )

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. )

I agree with that so much that at the end I had to check the author. I thought I wrote it or was quoted. I am not a serious biker. I get very little exercise with my bike and I bike alone. If there were a group that had hybrids I would love to tag along.

[outlaw]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I fully respect your opinion, and agree that most of the bikers you describe prefer the road. I can see a group of road cyclists, grouped across the lane...claiming the lane...feeling pretty safe on roads like in The Villages. I've been part of such a group. That being said...

I personally might try to think of another word other than "serious" to describe this group of cyclists though. I still consider myself a serious cyclist in the sense that I do it very regularly and do it for exercise, not just casually taking a joy ride. One big difference is that I now most often do it alone and on a hybrid bicycle...on the MMPs.

I would never feel safe on a road like Buena Vista or Morse riding alone, no matter what kind of bike I rode or how fast I traveled or how much I claimed the lane. To me, trying to claim the lane as a lone cyclists is just ticking off lots of automobile drivers. Of course almost all will avoid hitting you. But it only takes one at those kinds of speeds to cause a serious...life-threatening...problem.

Just to present the other perspective, when I ride the MMP, I take certain precautions that are very routine and do not effect the enjoyment or training aspect of my ride...

On typical full width section of path, I keep a good speed. Carts approaching from the rear who need to pass me are not uncommon, but not that frequent either. With no opposing traffic, I simply stay to the right and feel no threat as the cart passes. I may even slow just a bit to make the pass quicker. If there is approaching traffic, I make sure I have a section of grass to ride on for a short period if necessary. It rarely is. My hybrid handles the grass just fine.

As I approach a divided, narrower section of path, I check if any carts are approaching from the rear. If so, and I judge that I cannot make it through the divided section before they catch me (option 1), I slow as needed and ride on the grass a bit, making it very clear to the approaching cart it is clear to pass before the divide (option 2).

And after a couple years of riding, I have yet to have a situation where I couldn't easily adjust my ride to have a brief grass "enable-an-easy-pass" section as needed.

For tunnels and other similar situations, simple common sense precautions are of course necessary. But I've never seen these as problems. The change of grade, gear change requirements, etc. just add a bit of variety to the ride.

Well, there's my two cents. As a lone rider, I would never feel as safe on the road as I do on the MMPs...with or without striping of any kind.

(I realize now that this is a bit off-the-op topic. Please accept my apology and take the content of this post FWIW. )

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.

[biker1]

"Owning the lane" is a fundamental safety issue that is promoted by bike groups and law enforcement agencies whenever riding on substandard (width wise) roads. Serious riders practice this routinely on substandard roads (as we have in The Villages). To do otherwise is dangerous. Since you apparently don't see the value in this, and apparently believe you know better than law enforcement and biking groups, I suggest you stay on the MMPs.

Originally Posted by outlaw

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by outlaw

Totally agree. I consider myself a somewhat serious biker. I clip in, have no trouble on the MMPs. Of course, like you, I try to keep to the right as much as possible. I never try to own the lane. I do fine with the tunnels. They actually provide a good break in the steady pace of normal riding. I rarely need to unclip. I do slow to minimum speed many times, adding some balancing technique to my ride. I also climb the tunnel ramp with as much acceleration as I can muster. My wife and I refer to them as "stages" and frequently race to the top. It really does provide substantial additional fitness benefits in my opinion. I have been yelled at to slow down by a cart driver that wanted to pass me. I obliged. He thanked me as he passed. All is good. The own the lane mentality is, imo, why so many people resent bikers. And it's too bad that all bikers have to suffer this resentment because of the few. Own the lane at your peril.

On a mmp you can hug the right and if there is grass still have a place to bail out. The paths are debris free. On the road all the garbage including what falls off the utility trucks ends up next to the curb. That's where you get flats or run into a cutoff 2x4. It's threatening at times and counter intuitive but you are safer in the middle of the right lane if there is no shoulder. Just an opinion not an expert even though like many I've been riding since I was a little boy.

[Happydaz]

Originally Posted by tomwed

On a mmp you can hug the right and if there is grass still have a place to bail out. The paths are debris free. On the road all the garbage including what falls off the utility trucks ends up next to the curb. That's where you get flats or run into a cutoff 2x4. It's threatening at times and counter intuitive but you are safer in the middle of the right lane if there is no shoulder. Just an opinion not an expert even though like many I've been riding since I was a little boy.

I ride with the bike club occasionally on the roads and feel safe on these excursions. When alone I tend to stay on the MM paths. I do take the lane on occasion to ensure my safety. I do this when I am riding around blind curves and also coming to gates. I found if I rode to the far right in these situations some carts would attempt to pass me even though they couldn't see around the curve or had time to pass me before a gate. Taking the lane by riding in the center of the right lane blocked golf carts from passing me in these unsafe situations. All the rest of the time I ride to the far right so carts can easily pass me. I also slow down when the path divides into separate lanes so a cart can get ahead of me as I don't move over once in these narrow lanes. I move at a fast pace of 16 to 25 mph. I have no problems with cart drivers when I follow this program. When it is safe I always let the carts pass me if they want to and are going fast enough to get by me safely.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by biker1

...Serious riders practice this routinely on substandard roads (as we have in The Villages)...

Not sure if you referencing certain areas, but most of The Villages roads are not substandard.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Not sure if you referencing certain areas, but most of The Villages roads are not substandard.

PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

[Happydaz]

Originally Posted by dbussone

PB - I suspect biker is unable to remember which villages in which country he is discussing. The roadways here are better than most in the US, except for the rotaries, of course, which few properly use.

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

Misunderstandings often interfere with communication. The biker knows where he lives. "Substandard" roads refers to roads like Morse and Buena Vista that are narrower than wider "standard" roads. These narrower roads do not have enough room for a bicyclist to be passed by a car with at least three feet of clearance. That is why the bicyclist needs to ride in the middle of these narrow lanes to stop cars from trying to squeeze by. To pass the bike the car would move over to the other lane.

Every year, Auburn hosts "The Great Race" which is essentially a mini triathlon. (Trivia---it is named after Captain Miles Keogh, a native Auburnian who is buried at Fort Hill Cemetery about 500 yards from my house. His horse, Commanche, was the only US Army survivor of Little Big Horn.) Anyway, I digress. For about a month prior to the race, our streets are loaded with cyclists practicing/training. I have no problem if they want to own the road, I'm in a better position to look out for their safety than they are. However, not everyone feels that way. I wish they did, because I occasionally ride a bike as well, but they don't. So consider this before getting too committed to "owning the road"
1) Cars have to SHARE the road, golf carts have SHARE the road, so a lot of drivers don't think a cyclist should OWN the road
2) When push comes to shove, they am driving a 4600 pound SUV, you are driving a 20 pound bicycle, so who REALLY owns the road

[Happydaz]

Back to the striping of the golf cart paths. How about some street lights? Maybe the stripes and reflectors need more illumination. Also the golf cart headlights point straight ahead and when you come around a corner the lights do not lilluminate the cart path. Golf cart street lights would add a nice small town feel to the paths. Something to think about.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Happydaz

Back to the striping of the golf cart paths. How about some street lights? Maybe the stripes and reflectors need more illumination. Also the golf cart headlights point straight ahead and when you come around a corner the lights do not lilluminate the cart path. Golf cart street lights would add a nice small town feel to the paths. Something to think about.

golf cart paths are on the golf courses which are not played at night!!

Thought about it...NO!

Would you be willing to be assessed a special fee per month for the small town look....say $100 per month or more?

Maybe I just responded to a bait post

[Happydaz]

I was kidding. Please excuse me!