[billethkid]

How did anybody who used the MMP North of 466 before they were improved....SURVIVE???

How did the subject of striping never come up the many years on the north of 466 section of the MMP? If there was ever an opportunity for mishap it was there.

After putting in the much improved MMP south of 466, the planners and engineers and the developer elected to spend big $$$ to improve the MMP north of 466.

I would remind some who continue to refer to the MMP as cart paths, hence the tendency to have the priority be what the cart drivers "think" would be an improvement. How much thought has gone into how the stripping may affect walkers, bikers, etc?

The easiest, least/no cost fix is to drive safely and defensively. There is more to driving a cart on the MMP than pedal to the metal and stop.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by rcook715

It is STRIPING not stripping

thank goodness

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by rcook715

It is STRIPING not stripping

I SO wish OP or Admin would get in there and fix the spelling.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by billethkid

...The easiest, least/no cost fix is to drive safely and defensively...

Yeah. We don't need to consider any projects that might improve safety for the safe, defensive driver.

[looneycat]

Originally Posted by rcook715

It is STRIPING not stripping

we're talking about striping not stripping? well then never mind. if you are going to correct spelling here your work hasn't even started.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Ok, guys and girls, we might as well get over it and let the 3 stooges that started this in CDD 8 go ahead and finish it. The sides of the mmp's will have to be pressure washed before this happens and this will more than likely be done with reclaimed water, which is dirty water, to save money, . The sides with then be painted and in about a year or so, with the combination of the dirty surface and maintenance workers not having the time to take it slow when working around the new stripes, the stripes will look like s**t. The stripes will then have to be ground down to keep the paint from building up and making it unsafe (after all, this is about safety) and the process will start all over again.

Just remember "The CDD 3" when election time rolls around. People in America are getting tired of politicians who want to wastefully spend money and do things just because they can.

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I find this comparison very hard to understand.


I don't understand what you want to happen here in The Villages.

If we do something, let’s do it right. In my opinion, this low cost study was preformed to be able to say that we have looked at the issue. I am not accusing KImley-Horn of not doing more because we probably received what we paid them to do. We paid them very little and received very little in return.

their report -> http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/P...20150706pa0201

Questions that I can’t find any data, only guesses are as follows:

How many and what type of carts are in use in the Villages?

The percentage of carts being used at night and the age of those users.

A traffic count of cart use on the multi-modal trails to highlight areas of high use.

I could go on and on. How can we and our leaders make accurate judgements on how to do things in the Villages as a whole when we only look to our own personal experience which may or not be the norm? Too many questions are answered by personal assessments. I am sure that the Developers have collected reams of data on us to ensure that they are offering the correct products and the best prices to current and future villagers. Where is the data on golf carts and multi-modal trails in the Villages? Data analysis isn’t everything but it is a good starting point.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by triton18

this is a WASTE of money. Only been here 2 months, hope this doesn't keep happening, throwing money away, if you cant see the path, stay off it. We drove at night in pouring down rain and had no problem, drive slow and cautious and you wont have a problem. We are adults, lets use some sense here.

Pretty harsh for those who have trouble driving at night. As I've already posted, IMHO, it is not about YOU--I'm glad you have no trouble seeing the path. It is not about ME---I can drive a dark, unmarked country road at 75 mph. It is about what is best for the community as a WHOLE. As a whole, a community spends money on lots of things that do not benefit every single individual. I don't see why a group within the community should dictate use of a resource, such as the MMPs, to another group with somewhat lesser driving ability or visual acuity.
Do you play golf? I think if you cannot consistently break 80 from the black tees, you should stay off MY golf course. Stay home and watch the golf channel. You may argue the analogy does not hold, since the pro-striping group is asking everyone to pay for an accommodation that benefits a minority. But it does hold. I, me, myself, I am perfectly happy with only one set of black tees. Yet part of my greens fee pays to maintain 5 other sets of tees that I do not personally use. But those of us who golf are a part of the "golfing community" , and as such pay to enhance the course so that it is enjoyable to as many of the golfers as possible. What about those few golfers that walk the championship courses--why should they pay to maintain cart paths?
Like I said, I do not have a dog in this hunt. I only raise the issue to make a distinction between having a sense of community versus a sense of what benefits the individual.

[mickey100]

I agree with your comments about sense of community. But there is always going to be a cutoff point financially, over spending money on a minority of community members. The numbers of people that drive carts at night are a fraction of those that drive during the day. And of those that drive at night, what percentage have trouble navigating the recreational trails? And most importantly, do we have a high accident rate attributable to poor night time visibility? I suspect not. I have not seen the engineering study, but I know of the engineering firm and it is a good one. If there is doubt about the results of the study, more accident data should be collected and the matter can be looked at in a few years down the road.

[tomwed]

How many and what type of carts are in use in the Villages?

Each household has one or two carts. I think it safe to say there are 120,000 residents x 50% to 75% = 60 to 90,000 carts.
That why I think it's ludicrous to believe there are only a handful of accidents per year as the engineers reported.

The percentage of carts being used at night and the age of those users.

Suppose you found out that it was 10%, 20%, 80% were used at night----What difference would it make.
As far as age, just about 100% of the drivers are over the age of 55.


A traffic count of cart use on the multi-modal trails to highlight areas of high use.

I don't know how to do this, since no one is recording all the accidents but knowing where accidents occur most often would be helpful. If an ambulance is called is the accident recorded? Maybe someone knows.

[biker1]

Repeatedly bringing this same point up in this forum will accomplish nothing. You should direct your concerns to the CDD representatives, if you have not done so already.

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

If we do something, let’s do it right. In my opinion, this low cost study was preformed to be able to say that we have looked at the issue. I am not accusing KImley-Horn of not doing more because we probably received what we paid them to do. We paid them very little and received very little in return.

Questions that I can’t find any data, only guesses are as follows:

How many and what type of carts are in use in the Villages?

The percentage of carts being used at night and the age of those users.

A traffic count of cart use on the multi-modal trails to highlight areas of high use.

I could go on and on. How can we and our leaders make accurate judgements on how to do things in the Villages as a whole when we only look to our own personal experience which may or not be the norm? Too many questions are answered by personal assessments. I am sure that the Developers have collected reams of data on us to ensure that they are offering the correct products and the best prices to current and future villagers. Where is the data on golf carts and multi-modal trails in the Villages? Data analysis isn’t everything but it is a good starting point.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Suppose you found out that it was 10%, 20%, 80% were used at night----What difference would it make.

We don't use our golf cart at night, usually just for golf and errands during the day. So I don't have a dog in this fight.
However I think with every improvement using our money, it has to be considered "What percentage of residents would benefit from this improvement?" Obviously there is a difference if only 10% benefit versus 80%.

Much as been written on this subject, stating and restating positions.
Obviously people feel strongly on this issue, over 230 posts on this thread alone.
I'm surprised no-one has initiated a TOTV Poll as to how many residents use their golf cart at night, and how many are in favor of striping. Or perhaps I missed the poll.

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by biker1

Repeatedly bringing this same point up in this forum will accomplish nothing. You should direct your concerns to the CDD representatives, if you have not done so already.

I would encourage others to speak with their representatives about the need for collection of data on golf cart use in the Villages.

As I grow older, I sometimes do repeat myself and sometimes for good reason. Enough said today!

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I'm surprised no-one has initiated a TOTV Poll as to how many residents use their golf cart at night, and how many are in favor of striping. Or perhaps I missed the poll.

I don't know how to do a poll but I think it's a great idea.

Wouldn't it be even more scientific to put the striping in a confined area and then poll the drivers at the end of the road at a poll booth?

You would swipe your ID like a credit card on a ATM kind of machine, so you couldn't vote twice at the poll booth. The question on the screen would read:

True or False

Does striping improve safety?

We could use a poll booth like that for all kinds of questions.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I agree with your comments about sense of community. But there is always going to be a cutoff point financially, over spending money on a minority of community members. The numbers of people that drive carts at night are a fraction of those that drive during the day. And of those that drive at night, what percentage have trouble navigating the recreational trails? And most importantly, do we have a high accident rate attributable to poor night time visibility? I suspect not. I have not seen the engineering study, but I know of the engineering firm and it is a good one. If there is doubt about the results of the study, more accident data should be collected and the matter can be looked at in a few years down the road.

There are always financial constraints to be considered. The number stated in the thread, accurate or not, was $300,000 to install striping and $100,000 per year maintenance. Divide by about 50,000 homes and this is 50 cents/ month for 1 year and 17 cents/ month thereafter.

Now consider this:
Ever notice those little highway millage markers every 1/10 mile on interstates, US highways, and most state highways?
There are 46,876 miles of interstates, with signs in both directions every 1/10 mile, for a total of 937,520 of them
There are an additional 175,514 miles in the National Highway system= another 3,510,280 signs
There are 780,000 miles of state highways = another 15,600,000 signs
Total 20,047,800 of these little markers

According to the Illinois Dept of highways, it costs $125 to MANUFACTURE each of the signs and more to install them, so lets assume a low number 0f $300/sign. This makes a total cost for these signs, installed, of 6.014 BILLION dollars. God only knows the yearly maintenance cost.

According to the IRS, there are 243 million adult Americans, of which 122 million pay federal income tax (which in and of itself is a different problem). Just under 1/2 of the returns are joint filings, so let's assume 80 million distinct 1040's that actually pay tax. Dividing into the 6 billion cost = $75.18 per tax return over however many years it took to put these signs up.

So, as far as cost benefit goes, what would you rather have---striping for $3 or little signs for $75??? I'm sure the maintenance on these little signs is more than that of the striping as well

And now for the coup de gras: The stated purpose of these markers, according to the US Highway Dept, is "to aid tow truck operators in locating disabled vehicles"
Now, if a professional tow truck operator cannot see a disabled vehicle from far further away than 1/10 mile, he certainly cannot read those little signs. And despite what I already posted , HE should be the one to stay off our MMPs