[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Sometimes I think that people who do NOT live here jump to conclusions about all people who live here. There are some very wealthy people who do and others have saved, scrimped, done without, and made sacrifices to assure that in their retirement years they would be financially secure. It hurts me that some folks assume that all or most people who live in TV were born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

This grant issue is not as simplistic as you are making it jbdfan. The grant has not been granted. Grants are VERY hard to get.

I do say that the development of The Villages has turned Sumter county from one of the poorer counties into the one with the highest employment rate. That is a good thing.

It is UGLY to look down on people who are poor and UGLY to look down on people who have managed to live their life in such a way as to attain the privilege of living here. It is NOT a sin to be wealthy if you didn't steal to get it and worked hard to earn it and didn't throw it away when you did earn it.

Some folks who live here are arrogant and demanding and selfish, but I think they are the minority. It hurts all of us who live here to read that others are incorrectly judging all of us.

I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

[justjim]

"As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.". Jdblfan. I don't personally know the vast majority of TV residents but the ones I do know well enough to call friends don't have what you call a sense of entitlement. You might be surprised to find that many TV residents came from very poor backgrounds and without exception they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Many of us came from "blue collar" homes where they had mothers who mixed bread with hamburger to make the so called meat stretch far enough so all the family members had some to eat. As kids we were poor but didn't know we were poor. We learned the value of work from a very early age. If we wanted spending money we earned it by mowing yards, babysitting, collecting soda bottles, picking wild berries in season, packing in coal and whatever else we could find to do. When my father lost his job Because his factory closed, my mother took in washing and cleaned houses to help out. When I graduated from High School, I went straight to work miles away and sent home money every payday, until Dad got a decent job, so we could keep our house. We were entitled to work hard, pay your bills, save a little for a "rainy" day and go to church on Sunday. When I was 20 years old, I married a beautiful young Christian girl who just graduated from High School (met at church) and for years we worked hard and reached our goals of being the first in our families to graduate from college---while having a son born along the way. Like most folks, we had our mountains and our valleys. We saved and invested for retirement. That's only a small part of our story but in TV (trust me) you will find similar and better stories over and over again. This great land has given us opportunities not entitlements.

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

Once again, you do not object to the vast contributions Villagers make to Sumter County schools, public safety outside the Villages, roads not in the Villages, libraries and other services throughout the county. Villagers pay the lion's share of operating ALL of Sumter County without the expectation of personal return on their tax dollar.

Between 1940 and 1960, the population of Sumter was steady at around 11,000. The subsequent population growth occurred from the 70's to today at 97,756. The Villages certainly is the "culprit". My rough numbers, subject to empirical and precise review suggests conservatively that the 80,000 Villagers in Sumter carry the preponderance of the county's tax burden.

1870 United States Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1860 1,549
—
1870 2,952 90.6%
1880 4,686 58.7%
1890 5,363 14.4%
1900 6,187 15.4%
1910 6,696 8.2%
1920 7,851 17.2%
1930 10,644 35.6%
1940 11,041 3.7%
1950 11,330 2.6%
1960 11,869 4.8%
1970 14,839 25.0%
1980 24,272 63.6%
1990 31,577 30.1%
2000 53,345 68.9%
2010 93,420 75.1

It is interesting that you cite entertainment three times in your rant. Many would call it culture. How do you feel about culture and the arts? The squares are open to all Sumter residents. Have you ever been to one of the squares? Have you ever taken in a movie? Been to a recital at Church on the Square? Been to an art exhibit on the square? Have you been to a craft show where local artisans display and sell the products of their talent or an antique car show on the square? Many, many Sumter residents outside of the Villages do enjoy the entertainment and culture.

The available math says that the matching grant is for $60,000. There are 97,756 residents in Sumter. That would mean the per capita contribution to support entertainment enjoyed by thousands of county residents would be sixty one cents ($.61) per resident. I would not be considered an "affluent or wealthy" person with an entitlement mentality but would be happy to pick up your share of the grant.

[KathieI]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

I do agree with you that TV has provided opportunities for this area. But that has never been my point in my responses here. The idea that an affluent community, compared to most of the surrounding area, would get ANY money to supplement the squares to me is disgusting. The ironic part of this argument is that so many folks in this area claim to be fiscal conservatives but are ready to accept tax money for entertainment, entertainment......unbelievable to me.....
As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.

I very much agree. And... with this grant money, are they going to pay any more to the entertainers who perform for us??? Probably not. They, BTW, are not very well paid, which really upsets me.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I'm not sure the number of visitors/taxes generated would be much different without the entertainment. But not for us to decide. Hopefully the legislators will spend the money in a way that is best for the majority of their constituents.

You can't be serious. Have you been to the Town Squares between 5:00 and 9:00. have you seen 500 people or so gathered around the stages listening and dancing to the music? Do you think that any of them would be there if not for the entertainment?

I can't imagine saying to my friends, "Let's all down to the Town Square and hang out." If there was not entertainment down there. The little bars and ice cream places may draw a few people, but not in the numbers that go down there now.

The entertainment is a huge draw and the fact that it is being supported by tax dollars is fine with me. It makes sense since there are many people coming into the Villages for the "free" entertainment. The taxes help to keep our amenities fee down.

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by jbdlfan

Schools received $4m less this year from last. Where is the benefit to the rest of the county??????

Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?

As of the end of the 2008 fiscal year, the district's total spending budget was $55,740,000,

Instruction: $29,878,000
Teacher Salaries: $15,513,000
Pupils: $1,731,000
Total Support Services: $15,926,000

Sumter County School Board, Florida - Sunshine Review

The 2012 budget is $65,740,938

http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us/pdf/Budg...-submitted.pdf

Forty-three new teachers were just added in Sumter County School Districts. By all accounts and reviews, Sumter county has an outstanding educational system supported by Villagers without ill will or the "entitlement" mentality you keep implying. Further, Villagers do not have kids in the system

Sumter District Schools - Preparing the Next Generation Today

Guess who is picking up without protest, most of that tab. Further, remarkably, the tax revenues driven by Villagers reduces the millage rate significantly. That gives substantial tax relief to Sumter residents. A lot more than your sixty-one cents ($.61). Ooops, I forgot, it doesn't affect you...you live in Marion.

While I respect your opinion, the facts do not support your argument.

Have a great day. Thanks for the cerebral exercise.

[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?

As of the end of the 2008 fiscal year, the district's total spending budget was $55,740,000,

Instruction: $29,878,000
Teacher Salaries: $15,513,000
Pupils: $1,731,000
Total Support Services: $15,926,000

Sumter County School Board, Florida - Sunshine Review

The 2012 budget is $65,740,938

http://www.sumter.k12.fl.us/pdf/Budg...-submitted.pdf

Forty-three new teachers were just added in Sumter County School Districts. By all accounts and reviews, Sumter county has an outstanding educational system supported by Villagers without ill will or the "entitlement" mentality you keep implying. Further, Villagers do not have kids in the system

Sumter District Schools - Preparing the Next Generation Today

Guess who is picking up without protest, most of that tab. Further, remarkably, the tax revenues driven by Villagers reduces the millage rate significantly. That gives substantial tax relief to Sumter residents. A lot more than your sixty-one cents ($.61). Ooops, I forgot, it doesn't affect you...you live in Marion.

While I respect your opinion, the facts do not support your argument.

Have a great day. Thanks for the cerebral exercise.

Nope......
Revenue 2011 from local sources-$35.8 million
2012- $31.4 million
Still none of this is my point!!!!!
You are using tax dollars for music on the square!!!!
Apparently, I see this much differently tan everyone else. So go ahead, use tax money to have a good time. It's not my money....
Now as far as entitlement, do some of you even read the post on here. Golf cart drivers that disobey the laws, car drivers that disobey the laws, golfers that believe the rules don't apply to them, bikers that own the road, people with dog poop issues, ect.......
Geesh......everybody must always be "the other guy"
But hey, what do I know, I just live here......

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by cabo35

Once again, you do not object to the vast contributions Villagers make to Sumter County schools, public safety outside the Villages, roads not in the Villages, libraries and other services throughout the county. Villagers pay the lion's share of operating ALL of Sumter County without the expectation of personal return on their tax dollar.

Between 1940 and 1960, the population of Sumter was steady at around 11,000. The subsequent population growth occurred from the 70's to today at 97,756. The Villages certainly is the "culprit". My rough numbers, subject to empirical and precise review suggests conservatively that the 80,000 Villagers in Sumter carry the preponderance of the county's tax burden.

1870 United States Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1860 1,549
—
1870 2,952 90.6%
1880 4,686 58.7%
1890 5,363 14.4%
1900 6,187 15.4%
1910 6,696 8.2%
1920 7,851 17.2%
1930 10,644 35.6%
1940 11,041 3.7%
1950 11,330 2.6%
1960 11,869 4.8%
1970 14,839 25.0%
1980 24,272 63.6%
1990 31,577 30.1%
2000 53,345 68.9%
2010 93,420 75.1

It is interesting that you cite entertainment three times in your rant. Many would call it culture. How do you feel about culture and the arts? The squares are open to all Sumter residents. Have you ever been to one of the squares? Have you ever taken in a movie? Been to a recital at Church on the Square? Been to an art exhibit on the square? Have you been to a craft show where local artisans display and sell the products of their talent or an antique car show on the square? Many, many Sumter residents outside of the Villages do enjoy the entertainment and culture.

The available math says that the matching grant is for $60,000. There are 97,756 residents in Sumter. That would mean the per capita contribution to support entertainment enjoyed by thousands of county residents would be sixty one cents ($.61) per resident. I would not be considered an "affluent or wealthy" person with an entitlement mentality but would be happy to pick up your share of the grant.

Half of the things you mention in the above, such as the Church on the Square and the antique car shows, would not be effected by this grant since they are all in LAKE County, not SUMTER County.

[jbdlfan]

[QUOTE=cabo35;616164]Whoaaaa....playing a little fast and loose with your numbers for your anti-Villages rant aren't you?


Not anti Villages at all. If I was, I wouldn't have bought here. I'm anti wasteful spending. Love The Villages, as a matter of fact, I'm about to fill my cooler and drive down and enjoy some free, Sumter County subsidized entertainment.

[jbdlfan]

Originally Posted by justjim

"As far as the sense of entitlement comment, I stand by it.". Jdblfan. I don't personally know the vast majority of TV residents but the ones I do know well enough to call friends don't have what you call a sense of entitlement. You might be surprised to find that many TV residents came from very poor backgrounds and without exception they were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Many of us came from "blue collar" homes where they had mothers who mixed bread with hamburger to make the so called meat stretch far enough so all the family members had some to eat. As kids we were poor but didn't know we were poor. We learned the value of work from a very early age. If we wanted spending money we earned it by mowing yards, babysitting, collecting soda bottles, picking wild berries in season, packing in coal and whatever else we could find to do. When my father lost his job Because his factory closed, my mother took in washing and cleaned houses to help out. When I graduated from High School, I went straight to work miles away and sent home money every payday, until Dad got a decent job, so we could keep our house. We were entitled to work hard, pay your bills, save a little for a "rainy" day and go to church on Sunday. When I was 20 years old, I married a beautiful young Christian girl who just graduated from High School (met at church) and for years we worked hard and reached our goals of being the first in our families to graduate from college---while having a son born along the way. Like most folks, we had our mountains and our valleys. We saved and invested for retirement. That's only a small part of our story but in TV (trust me) you will find similar and better stories over and over again. This great land has given us opportunities not entitlements.

Look, I've lived in or near The Villages for over six years now. My family has been here for eight and I have friends that were here from the beginning. I moved down here for this place. I understand what you say about struggles, first hand. I know some folks have worked hard to get here. But you are blind if you don't see the entitlement aspect. My wife has worked here for 6 years in a service position. She has now reached the point where she can't do it anymore. Her customers are rude, nasty, and condescending, even when they are proven wrong. Not all of them of course, but enough of them that she has to leave the business. That is truly sad because she is absolutely the best they have in her company and everyone will tell you that. I know many of you are not this way, but there enough, that as someone else has said, they bring the attention and scorn. We almost didn't buy in here because of her experiences, but have decided that if she can get away from these folks as customers and they are now our co-inhabitants, they will no longer treat her that way without consequences. I always challenge folks to speak to workers here outside this environment ask their opinions. You will generally get a different answer than you get while in here.
Still, none of this has anything to do with my original point.

[ROCKETMAN]

I understood when the developer funded the entertainment it came from the grant money, income from vendor night, ($30 per vendor per night),income from bar kiosks, and percentage of rent from establishments around the square which benefit from the crowds. If the entertainment was sold to the vescos, where do they get income from. I doubt if morse will give up all the above income other than the grant. Not sure if a grant can go to a private entity. Maybe somebody knows these answers?

[cabo35]

Originally Posted by janmcn

Half of the things you mention in the above, such as the Church on the Square and the antique car shows, would not be effected by this grant since they are all in LAKE County, not SUMTER County.

I understand it differently then you........it appears the grant covers downtown entertainment in The Villages, Lake-Sumter and Brownwood.

From the OP's link.

Approve agreement between the The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc., and Sumter County Board of County Commissioners to implement a project entitled, "Downtown Entertainment in The Villages: Lake Sumter Landing and Brownwood" (Staff recommends approval).
Documents: Ex Summ for Villages Entertainment 1-22-13.pdf, Indep Contractor Agreement - The Villages.pdf, Exhibit I -The Villages Entertainment TDC App.pdf, Exhibit II, III, IV- Scope of Work, Standard Insurance Requirements,Hold Harmless Agree - Signed - The Villages..pdf
3.

The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc. was established in 1959.

I would be happy to stand corrected if someone has a definitive documented answer.

EDIT NOTE: I stand corrected. I just found a document that indicates the grant applies to LSL and Brownwood.

Nice catch janmcm!

[lawatha]

[quote=jbdlfan;616291]

Originally Posted by cabo35

I'm about to fill my cooler and drive down and enjoy some free, Sumter County subsidized entertainment.

I'll probably see you down there, because I can usually be found dancing at one square or the other almost every single night. But remember... "no coolers allowed on the square".