[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Maker

Only a very small portions of roads are a cul de sac. Insignificant in the big picture.

Servicing every other road means one trip northbound, and another trip southbound. (or east/west). That would be double the miles, double the time, double the cost.

If anyone feels that- "How they handle their business is not my concern." then they should voluntarily pay double (or more) for the trash fee. The rest of us aren't buying their BS excuse to waste more money.

What baffles me, is the cockamamie justification and explanation, the District bought. There's no question the "routes" are now almost double in length and they reduced the number of people on the truck ... how does that become "more efficient"? The trucks will accumulate almost double the mileage, per week/month/year. How is that efficient?

The "Throwers" got a 50% pay raise. The now have a "better chance of advancement"? Advancement to what? "Senior Thrower"? "Jr. Executive Tosser"? How many people aspire to "advancement in the trash pickup industry"? If Jacobs is so keen on employee benefits and advancement, let them hire a few women, so they can really be politically correct. When's the last time you saw a woman Thrower?

The throwers will spend less time in the "heat"? WTF, this is Florida, it gets hot out. & beside, how are they spending less time in the heat, when the length of the routes are almost doubled?

& the Trash company & the District came up with this revision, without giving anyone a clue it was going on or they were even discussing it. Probably Bruce Brown & the Trash guys, having lunch at the Angler's Club.

& let's see the "accident statistics" over the last 5 years. I haven't heard of any being reported by The Villages Daily Sun. Surely they wouldn't have missed it, if something had occurred.

Is anyone who buys into this story, interested in a bridge I have for sale?

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Maker

Perhaps some people would prefer a smaller trash can? That is also an option.
Still has wheels and can easily roll to the street. Still has all the advantages.

These trash cans can be any color we want.

Why change to trash cans?
Saves a lot of money - one person truck crew.
No physical injuries from lifting heavy bags.
No physical injuries from sharp objects poking through bags.
No more animals or birds rip open trash bags - tossing trash all over the place.
They don't blow around in a storm.
Easier to deal with yard waste and trimmings.
No more stinky bags laying around.
They are on wheels - much easier on older residents.
Opens the opportunity for weekly trash pickup - saving a lot more money.

Please stop trying to interject common sense and practicality into life in The Villages. This is a cartoon not "real life" in the 21st Century.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

50% Pay Increase, more "advancement for employees", reduction in employees, reduction in the length of routes, more mileage on the trucks ... but "service to the residents" is improved"?

& all this was done, without the Board having a clue?

Just another day of District Management.

Originally Posted by Maker

Only a very small portions of roads are a cul de sac. Insignificant in the big picture.

Servicing every other road means one trip northbound, and another trip southbound. (or east/west). That would be double the miles, double the time, double the cost.

If anyone feels that- "How they handle their business is not my concern." then they should voluntarily pay double (or more) for the trash fee. The rest of us aren't buying their BS excuse to waste more money.

The trash company provides a service at a price that had been negotiated. How they run their business is none of my concern, and only slightly the board's concern, so long as the service continues to be provided.

I don't tell Publix whether to stock the shelves from the front of the store to the back of the store or whether to use two employees per aisle or separate them and stock two aisles at a time. I don't tell the highway department whether to drive north to south while striping roads or south to north. These are choices the owner/manager of the business gets to make.

The trash company planned to make some changes. The changes were publicized prior to implementation. The District may not have provided advanced notice to the NSCUDD. In the end, my trash days did not change, my trash continues to be reliably picked up, and my trash rates have not increased (perhaps other than a previously negotiated 3.5% annual increase).

The internal operations of the trash company are not my concern as long as they continue to provide the same service at the same price.

[LeRoySmith]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The trash company provides a service at a price that had been negotiated. How they run their business is none of my concern, and only slightly the board's concern, so long as the service continues to be provided.

I don't tell Publix whether to stock the shelves from the front of the store to the back of the store or whether to use two employees per aisle or separate them and stock two aisles at a time. I don't tell the highway department whether to drive north to south while striping roads or south to north. These are choices the owner/manager of the business gets to make.

The trash company planned to make some changes. The changes were publicized prior to implementation. The District may not have provided advanced notice to the NSCUDD. In the end, my trash days did not change, my trash continues to be reliably picked up, and my trash rates have not increased (perhaps other than a pre-negotiated 3.5% annual increase).

The internal operations of the trash company are not my concern as long as they continue to provide the same service at the same price.

I agree completely.

They are performing a service I'm thrilled to take advantage of and I'm not the least but interested in getting in their business. I spend some time and money showing my appreciation by giving them Gatorade and snacks as often as I can.

[defrey12]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

There might be a more detailed explanation elsewhere, particularly on districtgov.org, but my recollection is this change was made for two reasons:

1. Safety: Trucks drive down one side of the road, rather than in the middle, and no one runs across the road picking up bags

2. Manpower: With only one side of the street being picked up at a time, the crew can be reduced from three to two (driver and loader).

Related: It was stated that the part of the cost saved by reducing the size of the crew would be translated into increased wages for the two that remained.

That still doesn't address DOUBLE the fuel costs. Dumb change. This will offset any savings in wages. ZERO sum at best...probably going to cost more than the old way.

[defrey12]

Originally Posted by Maker

It was introduced as a safety improvement, and a cost savings.

It is NOT a cost savings. Actual costs are now more than DOUBLE
Agreed that using 2 instead of 3 people saves the cost of one worker per truck. Seems like that saves money, but the details prove a different thing. Since it now takes double the effort because that crew has to travel twice to collect the same amount of trash the previous 3 person truck could do. So in effect we are paying for 4 man hours time when it used to cost 3 man hour time for collecting the same amount of trash per hour.
With a wage increase, the costs are nearly twice as much to collect the same amount of trash.
Also, to drive requires a CDL license. Now both people will need a CDL, and the pay rate for that job is also higher. Means even higher costs.
Another hidden cost is the truck itself. Fuel, consumables, maintenance, tires... alre are DOUBLE the previous costs. The truck miles is double, effectively cutting its years of use in half. Meaning new trucks will need to be bought twice as often.
Traveling every road twice also means the total hours to collect is double. Overtime pay also drives to total costs up.

For "safety", it would have been cheaper to have a crew of 5. 3 to collect trash, 2 put front and back to block traffic.

Very good analysis. The only flaw I see is that both will need CDLs?Maybe the feeble will finally get it. I've been tooting this horn since the implementation.

[defrey12]

Originally Posted by Fredster

Not everyone has room for a large plastic garbage container(s) inside their home.

I personally don’t want to have to deal with large plastic trash containers. Been there, done that!

As far as image is concerned! Putting out trash two times a week is not a pretty sight, which the “Villages” apparently puts up with!

Everyone in TV has a garage. Make space for the can.

[mraines]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

OK, I just watched this happen.

It's trash day at my house.

Jacobs (trash contractor) just drove down the street and picked up all the trash on the "odd numbered side".

Exited the street, drove down the road, turned right around came back. Drove back up my street, picking up the trash on the "even numbered side".

Trash trucks usually get somewhere under 5 mpg.

I'm not claiming to be a logistics expert, but someone please explain this one to me?

They do this in my neighborhood all the time. I see nothing wrong with it.

[MrFlorida]

I think its safer to do one side then the other. This way the thrower doesn't have to look both ways to cross the street every pickup. You know how people drive here in the Villages, they can't even see the gates, let alone a person in the road.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The trash company provides a service at a price that had been negotiated. How they run their business is none of my concern, and only slightly the board's concern, so long as the service continues to be provided.

I don't tell Publix whether to stock the shelves from the front of the store to the back of the store or whether to use two employees per aisle or separate them and stock two aisles at a time. I don't tell the highway department whether to drive north to south while striping roads or south to north. These are choices the owner/manager of the business gets to make.

The trash company planned to make some changes. The changes were publicized prior to implementation. The District may not have provided advanced notice to the NSCUDD. In the end, my trash days did not change, my trash continues to be reliably picked up, and my trash rates have not increased (perhaps other than a previously negotiated 3.5% annual increase).

The internal operations of the trash company are not my concern as long as they continue to provide the same service at the same price.

Your publix point does not hold up. We do not have to go to Publix what do we do with our trash bring it to another spot, and if we did we still have to pay the trash cost in the monthly billing.

Wait till they adjust the trash cost by 50% or more down the road. Will you still think the same?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Your publix point does not hold up. We do not have to go to Publix what do we do with our trash bring it to another spot, and if we did we still have to pay the trash cost in the monthly billing.

Wait till they adjust the trash cost by 50% or more down the road. Will you still think the same?

My Publix point *does* hold up. (we could do this all day)

My Publix point is that I don't care how the sausage is made as long as the sausage remains available at the same price. How Publix utilizes their employees doesn't matter to me as long as their prices don't increase. How Jacobs utilizes their employees doesn't matter to me as long as my trash gets picked up twice a week and the charge on my monthly bill doesn't change.

If I were king would I do things differently? Really doesn't matter, I'm not king. However, I'm willing to bet the Jacobs employee making that decision has a lot more information on the costs and benefits than the average homeowner posting on ToTV.

[Fredster]

Originally Posted by defrey12

Everyone in TV has a garage. Make space for the can.

What would the purpose be,
of having a CAN in the garage?

You CAN, but no CAN do for me!

[twoplanekid]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

My Publix point *does* hold up. (we could do this all day)

If I were king would I do things differently? Really doesn't matter, I'm not king. However, I'm willing to bet the Jacobs employee making that decision has a lot more information on the costs and benefits than the average homeowner posting on ToTV.

The seven elected people on the NSCUDD board represent you and do care how things operate . District staff, Jacobs and the board work together to provide the best service possible at justifiable costs. In this change to the pickup operation, the board was not informed or consulted. I believe that this situation will not take place in the future. Even though I will no longer be on this board, I will still stay attuned to what's happening as it interests me.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

The seven elected people on the NSCUDD board represent you and do care how things operate . District staff, Jacobs and the board work together to provide the best service possible at justifiable costs. In this change to the pickup operation, the board was not informed or consulted. I believe that this situation will not take place in the future. Even though I will no longer be on this board, I will still stay attuned to what's happening as it interests me.

This is not how government is supposed to work.

Folks seem to forget that the District runs our government and not always in a way that's open, fair & competitive.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by twoplanekid

The seven elected people on the NSCUDD board represent you and do care how things operate . District staff, Jacobs and the board work together to provide the best service possible at justifiable costs. In this change to the pickup operation, the board was not informed or consulted. I believe that this situation will not take place in the future. Even though I will no longer be on this board, I will still stay attuned to what's happening as it interests me.

If the contract detailed the number of workers collecting trash bags and the number of passes down each road then either a contract modification was agreed to or Jacobs is not abiding by the contract. If the NSCUDD must sign off on contract modifications and if you didn't sign off on this then there is a problem.

On the other hand, if the contract only stated the performance (2 pickups per week at a specific cost) then it seems Jacobs has the flexibility as long as they provide that performance.

Sure, the NSCUDD would like to be kept informed of changes the residents will see since the residents will come to the NSCUDD to comment and complain. Perhaps that was not done but I didn't attend that meeting to hear what was discussed. But I suspect the contract, which I have not read, does not provide for the NSCUDD to control how Jacobs satisfies the specified performance metrics.

I have no doubt the NSCUDD tries to do the best it can for the residents.