[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Wondering why you want to become full time, with such doomsday forecasting?

I agree. And I found it pretty humorous that when I got to the last line in the post that he was ONLY a part time resident that had yet to absorb a complete understanding of The Villages. Maybe they should have led with that fact. When they say that Spanish Springs are losing businesses, he may not be aware that the same thing has been going on for 10 or more years. The Villages has a habit of raising the RENT on various businesses until they give up and leave. The Villages is just a hard place to keep a business going. Lots of Villagers have the time and money to OFTEN go out to restaurants or bars. So, the various businesses have a BIG source of customers.
......Judging by traffic on 441 The whole Villages area is booming in the summer and even MORE in the winter. All of Florida has been increasing in population not decreasing. If things were so BAD in The Villages, then there would be FOR SALE signs on every block. Right now property values are HIGH.

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There is a shortage for sure, but in areas where there are a LOT of seniors - a shortage can be catastrophic. They need to market the area to attract more health care workers. And those will be people who actually live in the general area, and don't have to travel 40 miles one way just to get to their $15-20/hour jobs. Florida health care employees are notoriously underpaid. Nursing staff, physical therapy, radiologists - heck even janitorial services at hospitals and assisted living and memory care centers - are in bad shape here. Just look at how long those buildings across from the hospital have been for sale. They were part of a senior living center and they've been vacant and for sale for four years. No one wants to touch it, because they know there's no way they can staff it.

The property owners (go ahead and take a guess as to who that might be) need to be more reasonable about their expectations. Yes they absolutely deserve to profit from business rentals and property sales/leases. But their CUSTOMERS - people like Villages residents - also deserve to have the care we need within reasonable proximity, and not have to go halfway down or up the state, or move back north, just because we might need to spend our last years in a wheelchair and there aren't enough nurses to accommodate an aging population. That's something they should've thought about when they built the place.

Your comment about the inability to staff residential care facilities is valid & sparked another thought for me. Often marrying two needs can solve two big problems at the same time. Low-paid young people also cannot find affordable housing. An innovative solution might be to convert, for example, the 1st floor into low-cost (or free?) housing for workers while the upper floors of a residential care facility remained for only seniors. Electronic key cards can easily restrict movement. Win-win.

[Decadeofdave]

Typical cycle of life. If you bought new near LSL at 65 yo. In 2005, you are 80+. New buyers are 60 +or-.

[Glowing Horizon]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I agree. And I found it pretty humorous that when I got to the last line in the post that he was ONLY a part time resident that had yet to absorb a complete understanding of The Villages. Maybe they should have led with that fact. When they say that Spanish Springs are losing businesses, he may not be aware that the same thing has been going on for 10 or more years. The Villages has a habit of raising the RENT on various businesses until they give up and leave. The Villages is just a hard place to keep a business going. Lots of Villagers have the time and money to OFTEN go out to restaurants or bars. So, the various businesses have a BIG source of customers.
......Judging by traffic on 441 The whole Villages area is booming in the summer and even MORE in the winter. All of Florida has been increasing in population not decreasing. If things were so BAD in The Villages, then there would be FOR SALE signs on every block. Right now property values are HIGH.

In fact, listed homes are at historic highs in TV now. There are many reasons for that & to be fair, there are simply more homes now than in the past too. But do you actually assert there is no room for any improvement? Property values were high during Covid but values are declining due to many downward pressures including increasing fees & taxes and shifting demographics. The baby boomers are all over 65 now so new seniors will be fewer in years to come. Many seniors are still housing their GenXers because young folks cannot afford to buy their own home. Recent damage from unexpected &unprecedented flooding in Sarasota, to hurricane damage in Fort Myers & storm cleanup continuing in the panhandle have caused reasonable folks to push pause along with the stale national economy & high interest rates. Life in the bubble is still attractive but advocating for sticking your head in the sand is not helpful.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Interesting thread. The OP has visited the Villages several times and has been doing extensive due diligence about where he wants to spend a good chunk his hard earned retirement savings. He is very wise to consider both the positives and potential issues of wherever he chooses to make his new home. People are often criticized on this forum for not doing their due diligence and then complaining later about things they should have know about beforehand. Ironically, some are now questioning him for trying to make such a big decision eyes wide open. I applaud him for being so thorough before making such an important decision and considering both the good and potential bad.

I have a few random thoughts on the concerns raised by the OP.

- The Villages never ages significantly, there is constant housing turnover for many reasons, including death, moving to assisted living, wanting to be closer to family and friends, seeking better and more accessible health care, etc…. Since we moved into our neighborhood 9 years ago, about half the homes have turned over and there has been a significant infusion of youth (by Villages standards).

- Speciality boutique retail stores have been closing rapidly in mature areas nationwide. This is not a trend unique to SS and LSL. Online shopping has basically killed that line of business everywhere. To the contrary, the vast number of big box stores in the northern section (with Costco coming soon), is evidence of that area thriving.

- The restaurant business has consistently had the highest failure rate of any business. The establishments that recently closed were basically drinking places that served mediocre pub food and attracted a large younger clientele from outside the bubble. That food is not fit for seniors to be eating on a consistent basis and won’t be missed by many. Dinning places come and go, but the well run and healthy options have better staying power.

- What areas are considered “shiny” is in the eyes of the beholder. I know many people, especially avid golfers, who would never consider living south of the golf mecca between the northern most parts of the Villages and Hillsborough Trail. I know others who don’t golf, but love having walking and bike paths that don’t allow golf carts and wouldn’t consider living north of 44. Neither area is better than the other, just different.

I would advise the OP to consider other potential issues not mentioned as part of his post in this thread. Those would include the availability of quality health care, the effects of investor owned properties and short term rentals, ever increasing traffic and congestion, the relatively non diversified economy of an area dominated by the largest retirement community in the world, the almost daily lighting from around mid June until early October, and the ever increasing expense of both homeowners and auto insurance. All that being said, the Villages is an absolutely wonderful place with no equal. It’s highly unlikely my wife and I would have a home in Florida if the Villages didn’t exist. Florida isn’t our calling, it’s life inside the bubble. Hopefully someday I’ll be able to have a beer with the OP when he becomes a fellow Villager : )

That was a VERY good point about the effect of on-line shopping on EVERY part of the US.

[Sandancer]

Love your thread, Topcfa.....I couldn't agree more! We are here 28 years {same house} and we couldn;t be happier!

[LianneMigiano]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk

Somethin might be going on at the old Margarita Republic space in Spanish Springs. Drove by today and the lower windows are all covered with dark paper and the lights were on inside.

Oh, darn! I was hoping that ALL of the emptied buildings would become more "senior housing" apartments all around the square. Then, change the nightly music to classical and instrumental only - where people could relax and sit peacefully in the square and near The Sharon, whenever the mood hit them. Pretty much every shopping need can be fulfilled within walking distance of the square - or within a very short ride (car or golf cart).

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by dougawhite

I visited my CT hometown in June. The HUGE mall constructed around 1980 was practically deserted at 5pm. All 4 anchor stores are out of business and have never gotten new tenants. A few food court restaurants and a few clothing stores. Pretty depressing!

I would say that it is caused by on-line stores and a decreasing of the US middle class.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by sowtime444

Spanish Springs has a revitalization plan to make it more like Brownwood. And the big Reina building is being turned into apartments. As long as there is re-investment in "older" areas I think The Villages will continue to do well. Of course sometimes it takes a lawsuit to spur that investment (First Responders Recreation Center, etc.).

Let's face it. We all like the *idea* of a cute little downtown with boutique shops to browse in, but as a tourist on vacation or a special occasion shopping trip, not somewhere where we shop on the regular. And restaurants in general have always been a tough business.

I also wonder what, if anything, will cause The Villages to lose its shine and favor in the top spot. Not maintaining and reinvesting in older areas is certainly one possibility, but I don't see that happening.

I think it will be larger shifts in the public consciousness. For example, home ownership. Right now lots of younger people prefer to rent things on a subscription than own them. A ZipCar membership is easier than maintaining your own car for example, if there is a ZipCar parking bay near where you live. These younger people will grow up and in 20 years might be thinking about retirement. Do they want to maintain their own house, hire the lawn service, pest service, fix stuff that breaks? Maybe The Villages will have to buy back some of their own homes that they built and manage them themselves as rentals. Or build more apartment buildings with communal ground-floors where people can gather and socialize with their neighbors indoors as well as out at the pool. Other trends besides home ownership might come into play, and The Villages may need to come up with much more varied models of neighborhoods. For example neighborhoods with community gardens, if that becomes more popular. Neighborhoods with native grasses and maintenance-free lawns instead of Florida grasses from hell. They might need to knock down some older houses to make way for such new developments. But I'm talking farther in the future. If they don't change and grow with the times, The Villages will become a less attractive place to be.

It is easy to look at The Villages and ponder what we would do differently if we started from scratch today. I have my own list:
- There are over 100 pools in The Villages but only two of them are zero-entry and only a dozen or so are of any decent size. There are also too few of them in the north. If I were a billionaire I would build an entire water park. Maybe even one of those inland beaches that they are building near Tampa. At least a lazy river!
- I would have made rec centers and the surrounding grounds a lot bigger, to accommodate all sorts of sports at each location. I know this is heathenistic but the amount of golf here takes up way too much real estate.
- I would have left a lot more trees in place. No shaded walking trails in the north is a big bummer.

Of course even with the resources, if I were to start to build the above, there wouldn't be enough people moving there right away to establish 3,000+ clubs that The Villages has. And that "first mover" advantage is huge.

If rising sea levels really start to claim the coasts, that will just force more Floridians into places like The Villages, so I think it's popularity will remain high even if adverse global weather starts to creep up, at least temporarily. Of course if Florida in its entirety is under water that is a different story.

I liked the "Florida grasses from HELL" comment. I think that a lot of young people would buy houses if they cost less. They just need to build up the supply of affordable homes. (Whatever happened to DOME houses?)

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by mpstrang

I live South of 44, and yes, many are younger and still working. However, they are many, such as me, who are in their 50s, retired, and live here on a full-time basis. Also, many work locally or via remote jobs so they are here on a FT basis as well. To me, it seems like more of the older people are snowbirds because they can't tolerate the heat, whereas the younger folks, don't mind it as much.

Tolerance of heat is going to be very important to Florida residents.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Glowing Horizon

In fact, listed homes are at historic highs in TV now. There are many reasons for that & to be fair, there are simply more homes now than in the past too. But do you actually assert there is no room for any improvement? Property values were high during Covid but values are declining due to many downward pressures including increasing fees & taxes and shifting demographics. The baby boomers are all over 65 now so new seniors will be fewer in years to come. Many seniors are still housing their GenXers because young folks cannot afford to buy their own home. Recent damage from unexpected &unprecedented flooding in Sarasota, to hurricane damage in Fort Myers & storm cleanup continuing in the panhandle have caused reasonable folks to push pause along with the stale national economy & high interest rates. Life in the bubble is still attractive but advocating for sticking your head in the sand is not helpful.

I have written plenty of negative posts about Florida and questioning WHY there is such growth of population. IN this post I just wanted to STATE that Florida population was increasing. Just THAT FACT. I did NOT say whether I liked it or thought it is appropriate. which I do NOT. I have written posts where I suggest moving to North Carolina instead of Florida.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Glowing Horizon

Your comment about the inability to staff residential care facilities is valid & sparked another thought for me. Often marrying two needs can solve two big problems at the same time. Low-paid young people also cannot find affordable housing. An innovative solution might be to convert, for example, the 1st floor into low-cost (or free?) housing for workers while the upper floors of a residential care facility remained for only seniors. Electronic key cards can easily restrict movement. Win-win.

I don't think anyone would want to live in the same residential home they work in. You'd be the first people they'd rely on to handle emergencies even on your day off. Your movements would be under constant scrutiny. Every minute of your life would be regulated. You'd basically be relegated to a 24/7 on-call dormitory assistant.

And what kind of people would you WANT having that kind of authority? I wouldn't want to give the responsibility to anyone who'd be interested in living in a residential care facility. I'd be too suspicious in wondering what was wrong with them.

On the other hand -

Perhaps if care facilities in cooperation with The Villages LLC built one of those kinds of Villages exclusive to medical employees, that'd be awesome. Maybe 20 family-only (minimum two adults with minimum 1 child any age) houses and a few apartment buildings with 8-10 units each, with studio, one bedroom, and 2 bedroom apartments and a covered parking area. The new medical village could be exclusive to all medical facility employees, giving a discount to nurses, aides, physical therapists, janitors, cafeteria workers. As long as they work full time in a medical facility in the area, they would qualify to live in one of these lower-rent, but quality homes or apartments. None of these homes would be for sale, they would all be rentals. That way if someone quits their medical employment job and starts selling Amway or decides to run an automotive repair shop instead, they could be kicked out and room made for another medical employee.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Glowing Horizon

...The baby boomers are all over 65 now so new seniors will be fewer in years to come. Many seniors are still housing their GenXers...

I just need to correct something here. The Baby Boom was from 1946-1964. I was born in 1961. I'm 63. I'm a Boomer. My sister is 60. She's also a Boomer. GenXers were born 1965-1980. That'd make them 44 years old to 59 years old. Most of them do NOT still live with their parents, and some are eligible to retire and live in 55+ housing.

Remember the youngest of us Boomers, aren't old enough to have given birth to any GenXers.

[nhkim]

Originally Posted by BostonTom

Massachusetts is the most highly educated state in the country. Feel free to Google that. However we came here to escape the weather, high taxes and the far left political agenda. We love The Villages and you shouldn't paint everybody from Boston with a broad brush.

But New Hampshire is the most intelligent state. (From the 6/30/2024 edition of onfocus.news - TOTV wouldn't let me publish the link.)

Take that, Massachusetts!

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by nhkim

But New Hampshire is the most intelligent state. (From the 6/30/2024 edition of onfocus.news - TOTV wouldn't let me publish the link.)

Take that, Massachusetts!

They must have done that analysis, without visiting NH.

I live in NH and calling it the "most intelligent" state is a colossal over-statement in my opinion.

I do believe it's the state with the highest % of population with a college degree. Although getting a degree from SNHU, is sort of like graduating from the 9th grade, when I went to high school.