[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Swoop

CNBC
Shutting down businesses and paying people for lost wages for four to six weeks could help keep the coronavirus pandemic in check and get the economy on track until a vaccine is approved and distributed, said Dr. Michael Osterholm, a coronavirus advisor to President-elect Joe Biden.

I think the gov should close down everything and just pay our mortgages, utilities and food as well as give us free health care, permanently. They can just print up more money. Let us stay home and watch TV. After all, why go to all the dangerous trouble of leaving home when the gov can have our meals delivered. Oh, wait a minute....who's going to deliver the meals? Who's going to keep the power on and the water running? Who's going to put the fires out? Who's going to populate the hospitals and take care of the ill or wounded? Oh my! Who's going to take care of us?

[Dorebea]

Originally Posted by DrBrutyle109

Why Covid deniers? You stay home and cower in your house. I’ll go out, be careful and enjoy the The life I worked 50 years to have.

Here is a case study the CDC published about an outbreak in Maine last August. 55 people went to a wedding. 177 people ultimately became infected and in the end 7 people died. None of the 7 attended the wedding but were exposed from people who did (2nd or 3rd level exposure). Sobering report. It’s not just about you! It’s also about helping others enjoy the life they too worked for years to have!

Multiple COVID-19 Outbreaks Linked to a Wedding Reception in Rural Maine — August 7–September 14, 2020 | MMWR

[Happinow]

I don’t think anyone can deny that the virus is real. Everyone has their own opinion on how they want to handle it. By opening everything back up, it gives those who desire to go about their lives to do so, and those who don’t want to go out of the house a choice as well. As I see it, it’s a win win for both sides....it’s open if you would like to enjoy it, and if you choose not to, don’t. It’s as simple as that. One side should not be condemning the other. We are’s till free, for as long as it lasts, to make our own choices.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I don't think it's true that the one side (the mask advocates/stay at home people) are more caring than the people saying that it's time to return to normal and limit the economic devastation, massive job losses, despair and loneliness brought on by extended self isolation. Businesses are not going to stay afloat unless they can operate at capacity again. Young people need to be in the physical schools around their friends. We need fun things like concerts, football games, 4th of July parades, family gatherings, church services, weddings, parties, etc for our quality of life.

We ALL have done our part to slow the spread while the medical community figured out how to treat this virus and got a better understanding of it. We now know that this virus is not nearly as deadly as once feared which is wonderful news. People have grown frustrated with the "mask nazis" or "the maskholes" as I've heard them referred to.

Were you aware that Antifa wore masks over their faces BEFORE this whole pandemic even started? Those are the folks who were setting cop cars on fire, throwing bricks at police officers, looting businesses, making the streets unsafe in many of our cities across the country. Do you think that they wear those masks because they care about you?

Mask-wearers and non-mask-wearers BOTH agree that they preferred the better times before CV - but the REALITY of the situation is that ALL our lives are SEVERELY changed by CV. Modern History will speak of this period as BEFORE CV and AFTER CV because the changes are so abrupt, so intense, and so DISRUPTIVE! We just need to LIVE through this society CHANGING event!

I am confused by the 3rd paragraph. Was it to point out that within the US, terror groups exist? We ALL probably are aware of that? To point out that both BAD and GOOD people wear masks for Bad and GOOD reasons? I tried to analyze that 3rd paragraph, but I could not reach a conclusion?

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

I think that Desantis is one of the best governors in this entire country. When this crisis first began, he had the foresight to protect our most vulnerable senior citizens by implementing strict visitation guidelines in assisted living and nursing home communities.

Some of the most abysmal statistics in that regard come from the states like Michigan, NY and NJ who put COVID-19 patients in with medically fragile elderly people while shutting out visits from their (very) concerned family members. The lack of common sense and decency in those so called leaders is beyond appalling and they are not the ones to look to for standards.

Statistics are simply not bearing out this idea that shut downs, mask mandates, curfews or other draconian rules are keeping citizens any safer.

There simply is no question that masks save lives. Thus, they are recommended by virtually every expert in the field.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by kendi

Life is good and meant to be lived. For myself I simply take the proper precautions while out, for the sake of myself and others. If I get the virus then so be it. If I die....well shouldn’t we all be looking forward to that at least a little? At least for Christian’s that is. If not then maybe it’s time to rethink the ultimate goal of the Christian life.

No religion would say for people to SURRENDER to a PLAGUE and become a denier of Science!

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I never said I want shut downs, curfews, schools shuttered or any of those economy shattering measures. You must have me mixed up with someone else.

What l I would like to see is universal masking when indoors, strict social distancing and masking outdoors when social distancing can not be maintained. I much prefer the conservative measures, if you will, than the Draconian measures you mentioned.

O.k. so you don't want people to impose restrictions on you that you don't agree with but you feel it's o.k. to impose your restrictions on others that they don't agree with?

I think that people have been playing along with the masks for the most part and there will be some major push back if there are mask mandates put in place.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

OrangeBlossomBaby - I know from other posts that you are a sweet lady. But the reality is there is no way to make it safe for a vulnerable person to be in a crowd. Wearing a homemade mask does not make it safe for you to do any of the things that you say. If you are susceptible to infection and severe complications from what amounts to a cold virus then you really do need to take added precautions to keep yourself safe - staying at home, ordering delivery, teledoc, pharmacy drive thrus, grocery pickups, etc. You can't live in a car dependent, active adult community like The Villages and expect to stay perfectly free from the risk of catching a cold or other virus. That is simply not the lifestyle of the community that you live in.

FWIW, I see nearly 100% compliance with mask requirements at the stores and I currently live in a regular Florida suburb. People are wearing masks but this virus is still going around because the masks offer only so much protection. "Global Pandemic" only means widespread around the world. It doesn't mean that a virus is particularly deadly even though the media would love for you to believe otherwise.

As far as Antifa not being an organized group, I beg to differ. There has very obviously been a coordinated group of anti American agitators inciting mobs across this country to riot and terrorize. The media has been doing nothing but fanning the flames.

Sorry but this COVID IS (big time IS) an extremely deadly virus that you REALLY do NOT want to tango with. Total deaths are about 1/4 of a MILLION deaths, today. Medical experts predict one-half of a million deaths by mid-2021. Today hospitalizations are about 4.5 million people. So, to extend that to mid-2021, that would be (say) about 10 million people that have been killed or have had terrible experiences with CV. A terrible experience could be a hospital bill too big to ever pay. So, by mid-2021 10 million out of 360 million have suffered badly from CV. That is 1 person out of every 36 that you walk by in a week had bad experiences. Then count the families that have been disrupted. That would make about 1 person out of EVERY 6th person having bad experiences with CV. NOW, everyone knows a friend that has been affected by CV and we are just to mid-2021. It might be over by then, but SOME MEDICAL experts believe that CV will remain an every- year problem into the future????

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Swoop

CNBC
Shutting down businesses and paying people for lost wages for four to six weeks could help keep the coronavirus pandemic in check and get the economy on track until a vaccine is approved and distributed, said Dr. Michael Osterholm, a coronavirus advisor to President-elect Joe Biden.

Dr. Osterholm has been right about all his predictions to date. If you saw the whole context of his remarks you would see that he is again correct. He is ADVISING for a good, possible solution.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

OrangeBlossomBaby - I know from other posts that you are a sweet lady. But the reality is there is no way to make it safe for a vulnerable person to be in a crowd. Wearing a homemade mask does not make it safe for you to do any of the things that you say. If you are susceptible to infection and severe complications from what amounts to a cold virus then you really do need to take added precautions to keep yourself safe - staying at home, ordering delivery, teledoc, pharmacy drive thrus, grocery pickups, etc. You can't live in a car dependent, active adult community like The Villages and expect to stay perfectly free from the risk of catching a cold or other virus. That is simply not the lifestyle of the community that you live in.

FWIW, I see nearly 100% compliance with mask requirements at the stores and I currently live in a regular Florida suburb. People are wearing masks but this virus is still going around because the masks offer only so much protection. "Global Pandemic" only means widespread around the world. It doesn't mean that a virus is particularly deadly even though the media would love for you to believe otherwise.

As far as Antifa not being an organized group, I beg to differ. There has very obviously been a coordinated group of anti American agitators inciting mobs across this country to riot and terrorize. The media has been doing nothing but fanning the flames.

You're using unreasonable goalposts to justify an opinion that has no justification.

Yes people who have EXTREME situations, need to take EXTREME measures. But MOST people don't have extreme situations. Most people - especially here at the Villages, have moderate risks. Higher risks simply by virtue of the fact that they're OLD, and lower risks by virtue of the fact that this is an active community and most of these old people don't hang out on rocking chairs knitting until their arthritis and dementia puts them in a home for the aged. I'd venture to guess that the overall fitness level of our community is the #1 reason we're not all sick - and if it weren't for that, there would be thousands more dead old people in Sumter County than the comparable low quantity there are now.

You're also using "safe from" as your benchmark. That is an unreasonable benchmark. The appropriate and correct benchmark with regards to mask wearing, social distancing, and hand sanitizing is "LESS UNSAFE."

There is a HUGE difference between "100% safe" and "less unsafe." There is ALWAYS a risk. The risk is reduced when we (get ready for it)...


(wait for it)...


(drumroll)...


Wash your hands. Social distance. Wear a mask.

Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe. Risk reduction. Not safe. Less unsafe.

Not sure how many posts have to have these phrases in them, before people who insist that the opposite of their opinion is "masks will prevent" anything at all, realize that it is not the opposite of their opinion.

Their opinion is "screw masks, they don't work, I don't like them, I don't wanna, my freedom to go where I want and if you don't like it stay home."

OUR opinion is: "Masks REDUCE THE RISKS, we don't like them, we don't wanna, but we are civilized, so if you don't like it, YOU stay home."

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Sorry but this COVID IS (big time IS) an extremely deadly virus that you REALLY do NOT want to tango with. Total deaths are about 1/4 of a MILLION deaths, today. Medical experts predict one-half of a million deaths by mid-2021. Today hospitalizations are about 4.5 million people. So, to extend that to mid-2021, that would be (say) about 10 million people that have been killed or have had terrible experiences with CV. A terrible experience could be a hospital bill too big to ever pay. So, by mid-2021 10 million out of 360 million have suffered badly from CV. That is 1 person out of every 36 that you walk by in a week had bad experiences. Then count the families that have been disrupted. That would make about 1 person out of EVERY 6th person having bad experiences with CV. NOW, everyone knows a friend that has been affected by CV and we are just to mid-2021. It might be over by then, but SOME MEDICAL experts believe that CV will remain an every- year problem into the future????

I do not expect the rate of severe complications from COVID-19 to remain consistent. From my own observations, most of the people who are coming down with this virus are asymptomatic or only have very mild cold like symptoms. That indicates that the people who are suffering severe complications from the virus are in some way susceptible to getting seriously ill from it. Usually that means they have other fairly serious health problems that make them more vulnerable to getting sick from any virus not just COVID.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

So, it has been REPORTED but they failed to REPORT what the side effects are? Then, it wasn't reported. More fake news.

You misunderstood what I said. The side effects of Covid were reported, I just don't remember what those side effects were. I believe motor issues and brain issues were mentioned but don't take that to the bank.

[Byte1]

Side effects that were reported at the beginning were blood clots. Who knows whether that was from the virus or from the treatment.

Lets not over inflate the virus. It is what it is, and it is not the end of civilization. It may cause the end of some of our liberties though, if folks don't settle down and quit demanding laws enacted to limit our freedom and liberty.
The way I figure it (my opinion) we have a choice. We can do everything voluntarily to protect ourselves and suffer through an economic drought, or we can allow a few people in D.C. the power to limit and control our destiny. America's freedom and liberty is a model for the rest of the world. We give other countries hope. Hope that some day their country can be as great as ours.
The more power we give a few politicians over us, the more they move us into slavery. Although, there are some countries out there that need or enjoy having a gov nanny.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Herd immunity is what Fauci and other "experts" were pushing for early on. Now it's stupidity? I don't think so. It's REALISTIC as my original post read.

If flu vaccine penetration is any guide, less than 40% will take a vaccine that comes along. I think even less than the flu vaccine participants will accept it because it is new and rushed. Everyone saying they don't know what the future holds in terms of residual effects of getting the virus is not considering the unknown of a vaccine. Sure, they tested it. And those tested have had the vaccine for at most weeks or months. But the non-realists are worrying about months and years after getting the virus.

I prefer to trust my God-given immune system to take care of this much more than I trust Pfizer.

Again - REALISM. No matter what you think is stupid, REALITY will run you over like a truck. If only 30% get the vaccine, we are still going with herd immunity by INFECTION (not necessarily sickness or death). What if 90% get this new-fangled vaccine because it's free and widely available and suddenly MILLIONS are dying. What then? Personally, I will be calling that STUPID.

On the plus side, that will make a lot of water front property available and good prices and simultaneously solve the social security financial mess. I think those relying on a vaccine are the stupid ones.

Dr. Fauci never advocated herd immunity. Where did you get that from?.......

Dr. Fauci says letting the coronavirus spread to achieve herd immunity is '''nonsense''' and '''dangerous'''

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Herd immunity is what Fauci and other "experts" were pushing for early on. Now it's stupidity? I don't think so. It's REALISTIC as my original post read.

If flu vaccine penetration is any guide, less than 40% will take a vaccine that comes along. I think even less than the flu vaccine participants will accept it because it is new and rushed. Everyone saying they don't know what the future holds in terms of residual effects of getting the virus is not considering the unknown of a vaccine. Sure, they tested it. And those tested have had the vaccine for at most weeks or months. But the non-realists are worrying about months and years after getting the virus.

I prefer to trust my God-given immune system to take care of this much more than I trust Pfizer.

Again - REALISM. No matter what you think is stupid, REALITY will run you over like a truck. If only 30% get the vaccine, we are still going with herd immunity by INFECTION (not necessarily sickness or death). What if 90% get this new-fangled vaccine because it's free and widely available and suddenly MILLIONS are dying. What then? Personally, I will be calling that STUPID.

On the plus side, that will make a lot of water front property available and good prices and simultaneously solve the social security financial mess. I think those relying on a vaccine are the stupid ones.

One-click over the line - sweet Jesus. When REAL epidemiologists like Dr. Fauci talk of herd immunity it is different than when fake Dr's like Dr. Atlas speak of herd immunity. Dr. Fauci means when 80 or 90 % of a country is vaccinated, then BECAUSE OF the vaccine the "herd" is SATISFACTORILY protected with vaccine stimulated anti-bodies. Dr. Atlas means when 80% of the herd gets SICK, that the SURVIVERS have anti-bodies for the disease. LESS people DIE with Dr. Fauci's method! And, actually, Dr. Atlas was just part of the con job of a justification for a botched (un-scientific) early country-wide Federal response to the CV crisis!