Why do we as Sumter County taxpayers put up with this?

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  #181  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:34 AM
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I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.

I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.
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  #182  
Old 02-12-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Two Bills View Post
Probably the main reason the family retained possesion of the championship courses.
When demand falls, courses will hold a lot of new housing.
The golf courses are designed to become flood management areas during extreme wet weather conditions. Not a good place to build homes. Remember Hurricane Irma.
  #183  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.
I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.
Why can't you be happy and let the developer pay for the infrastructure he needs to keep on building, that is how it works every where else in the country.

He is building new and we are paying for the infrastructure with higher taxes.
  #184  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by crash View Post
Why can't you be happy and let the developer pay for the infrastructure he needs to keep on building, that is how it works every where else in the country.

He is building new and we are paying for the infrastructure with higher taxes.
Let's be clear about what is meant by "infrastructure"

The issue is the roads, which will eventually be turned over to the county. There is some ambiguity over who initially pays for the roads, and how they are turned over, and what the specific deal REALLY is.

The rest of the infrastructure in TV is paid by the homeowner in the form of the "bond"

The county will maintain these roads and own them. That is why TV is not a truly gated community, you cannot deny use of county roads by the public. The water, sewer, MMPs, electricity are all paid for by the homeowner in their bond.

So the issue comes back to the question: should ALL homeowners in Sumter County pay for roads that "are of no benefit to them"? Previous posts have listed the benefits to all in the form of an improved economy, more jobs, and even free entertainment at the town squares. For a long time , Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida out of 67, now it ranks 15th---quite a benefit!
Previously I posted a list of thing we taxpayers bear the cost of yet derive no benefit: School taxes for childless couples, cell phone surcharges, welfare, food stamp and Medicaid to name a few. We are constantly paying for these things in both obvious and subtle taxes and fees.
Are the developers getting some kind of financial benefit from the road deal---I don't know, but I couldn't care less. They've built a very special place, have run their business very well, and as a result, they are "ultra-rich" WHO CARES. There seem to be a lot of posters that are jealous of their success, or feel that they are owed something from "the rich". NO, YOU AREN'T!!!!!
  #185  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:59 PM
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My question is: what roads does the developer pay for and what roads are the counties responsibility?

My assumption, but I do not know for certain, is that the developer initially paid for the "infrastructure" (infra- means within) which includes among many things, all the roads WITHIN a new village. The home owner's bond then paid for the "infrastructure" within their village through annual payments rather than have each home owner pay for the "infrastructure" by having his/her share added to the cost of their lot. Developers always recoup their costs someway.

My assumption, which may be wrong, is that the county (us taxpayers) then paid for improvements and repair to the regional county roads which includes 468, 501, 466A, 466, Warm Springs road, etc, and the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista, and part of 466A. These regional roads are available and used by many people, villagers and non-villagers alike. IMHO, the cost of maintenance, repairs, and improvements of these roads was not the responsibility of the developer, but was the responsibility of the county. Poor planning on the part of the county meant the significant property tax increase, rather than a smaller increase over past years to accumulate a "rainy day fund."
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  #186  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:03 PM
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Default It is "broke", let's fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I have been reading this forum for a long time. I find it interesting that the "thank you's" for statements are going along pretty predictably. In fact on the first post by the OP there were two "thank you's" from folks who had never ever ever posted before.

I like to know if there is more than what is said and attitudes deeper than an issue when I read a debate like this and the people who stand for and against are to me the telling factor.

My opinion is that there is a movement to unseat people who are connected to the developer. There are those, like realtors that cannot sell new homes and they have a beef, and I see at least one who has chimed in.

I always wonder what is the agenda behind all of the debate and I step back, four, five, six, forty, a thousand paces and look at this place. I am always astonished at how well it is run, and that is has just minor flukes. It is clean, it is well maintained and it offers a myriad of things for a decent price. It is hugely successful for good reason. Folks are flocking here, and that irritates many, but it is a sign of success. Many people are irritated by those who make big bucks. Many people want to run things themselves.

I say. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You might just throw out the baby with the bath water and usher in some folks who are really gonna make you mad.
It is “broke”.

Many of us are aware that it is badly broken, and we are trying to fix it, and whether or not The Villages has nice life style is completely irrelevant. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should be insisting on good government in our community.

The point under discussion is that the five "people connected with the Developer" (your words) on the Sumter County Commission have picked our pockets, and given to the Developer, $186 million (Orlando Sentinel figure). The County Commissioners have done this by massively increasing our taxes to pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via increasing his sweetheart impact fee. That impact fee has been $901/house versus $2,600 for other Sumter County builders versus about $20,000 for a Collier County builder in a retirement community.

Every time you pay your county tax bill, you are, in reality, writing the Developer a check for the amount of your increased tax, and every year that check is going to get bigger and bigger as your assessed value increases. You, apparently, are okay with this. Are you are also okay with the County Commissioners refusing to oppose draining our aquifer for commercial bottling-- thereby increasing our risk of both a water shortage and even more sinkholes?

If you are okay with that sort of stuff, fine; keep voting for the incumbent Commissioners. Many of us are not okay with with that kind of abuse of Sumter residents by the County Commissioners. For that reason, we are marking our calendars to vote out Developer-puppets Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.
  #187  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by birdiebill View Post
My question is: what roads does the developer pay for and what roads are the counties responsibility?

My assumption, but I do not know for certain, is that the developer initially paid for the "infrastructure" (infra- means within) which includes among many things, all the roads WITHIN a new village. The home owner's bond then paid for the "infrastructure" within their village through annual payments rather than have each home owner pay for the "infrastructure" by having his/her share added to the cost of their lot. Developers always recoup their costs someway.

My assumption, which may be wrong, is that the county (us taxpayers) then paid for improvements and repair to the regional county roads which includes 468, 501, 466A, 466, Warm Springs road, etc, and the repaving of Morse and Buena Vista, and part of 466A. These regional roads are available and used by many people, villagers and non-villagers alike. IMHO, the cost of maintenance, repairs, and improvements of these roads was not the responsibility of the developer, but was the responsibility of the county. Poor planning on the part of the county meant the significant property tax increase, rather than a smaller increase over past years to accumulate a "rainy day fund."



What is the Bond Debt Assessment for?
The bond debt assessment reflects each lot’s proportionate share of the cost of building the infrastructure within its District or for which its District has responsibility. It is the most equitable method of distributing costs between the properties that benefit from the infrastructure. Infrastructure includes storm water systems, underground pump stations, water retention areas, curbs, gutters, streetlights, transportation trails, underground piping, etc.
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  #188  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
It is “broke”.

Many of us are aware that it is badly broken, and we are trying to fix it, and whether or not The Villages has nice life style is completely irrelevant. We live in a community, not in a resort hotel, and we should be insisting on good government in our community.

The point under discussion is that the five "people connected with the Developer" (your words) on the Sumter County Commission have picked our pockets, and given to the Developer, $186 million (Orlando Sentinel figure). The County Commissioners have done this by massively increasing our taxes to pay for infrastructure that should be paid for by the Developer via increasing his sweetheart impact fee. That impact fee has been $901/house versus $2,600 for other Sumter County builders versus about $20,000 for a Collier County builder in a retirement community.

Every time you pay your county tax bill, you are, in reality, writing the Developer a check for the amount of your increased tax, and every year that check is going to get bigger and bigger as your assessed value increases. You, apparently, are okay with this. Are you are also okay with the County Commissioners refusing to oppose draining our aquifer for commercial bottling-- thereby increasing our risk of both a water shortage and even more sinkholes?

If you are okay with that sort of stuff, fine; keep voting for the incumbent Commissioners. Many of us are not okay with with that kind of abuse of Sumter residents by the County Commissioners. For that reason, we are marking our calendars to vote out Developer-puppets Butler, Burgess, and Printz in the August 18 Republican primary.
What are the names of the people who will be running against them??? Are you running?
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  #189  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by golfing eagles View Post
Let's be clear about what is meant by "infrastructure"

The issue is the roads, which will eventually be turned over to the county. There is some ambiguity over who initially pays for the roads, and how they are turned over, and what the specific deal REALLY is.

The rest of the infrastructure in TV is paid by the homeowner in the form of the "bond"

The county will maintain these roads and own them. That is why TV is not a truly gated community, you cannot deny use of county roads by the public. The water, sewer, MMPs, electricity are all paid for by the homeowner in their bond.

So the issue comes back to the question: should ALL homeowners in Sumter County pay for roads that "are of no benefit to them"? Previous posts have listed the benefits to all in the form of an improved economy, more jobs, and even free entertainment at the town squares. For a long time , Sumter County was the poorest county in Florida out of 67, now it ranks 15th---quite a benefit!
Previously I posted a list of thing we taxpayers bear the cost of yet derive no benefit: School taxes for childless couples, cell phone surcharges, welfare, food stamp and Medicaid to name a few. We are constantly paying for these things in both obvious and subtle taxes and fees.
Are the developers getting some kind of financial benefit from the road deal---I don't know, but I couldn't care less. They've built a very special place, have run their business very well, and as a result, they are "ultra-rich" WHO CARES. There seem to be a lot of posters that are jealous of their success, or feel that they are owed something from "the rich". NO, YOU AREN'T!!!!!
This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.
  #190  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
What are the names of the people who will be running against them??? Are you running?
No, I am not running. My only objective is to clean up the County Commission.

The POA is endorsing challengers Miller, Estep, and Search. All three have pledged to clean up the County Commission and to roll back the tax hike. Because all three are highly qualified, the POA has vetted them, and, with the POA's endorsement, they have the best chance of ousting the Developer-backed incumbents, I am supporting Miller, Estep, and Search.

Last edited by Advogado; 02-12-2020 at 02:24 PM.
  #191  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
No, I am not running. My only objective is to clean up the County Commission.

The POA is endorsing challengers Miller, Estep, and Search. All three have pledged to clean up the County Commission and to roll back the tax hike. Because all three are highly qualified, the POA has vetted them, and, with the POA's endorsement, they have the best chance of ousting the Developer-backed incumbents, I am supporting Miller, Estep, and Search.
I recognize Oren Miller but what are the full names of Estep and Search, please.
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Last edited by graciegirl; 02-12-2020 at 02:36 PM.
  #192  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter View Post
While are political posts, by this poster, continued to be allowed???
The subject is taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes. I only mentioned the names of candidates that I was supporting when asked.

It is hard for me to believe that subjects as important as taxes, water shortage, and sinkholes and their causes should not be discussed here.

Do you have a reason for wanting to stifle discussion? Remember, this thread has been going on for a long time with no objection from anyone. Look at the original post to understand the topic.

Last edited by Advogado; 02-12-2020 at 02:36 PM.
  #193  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I recognize Oren Miller but what are the full names of Miller and Search, please.
Gary Search and Craig Estep. Bios are available on the Sumter County elections website.
  #194  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.
A point that seems to be missing is that developers do not pay for impact fees out of their own pockets. An impact fee is just another cost of doing business, and that fee is added to the final cost of the new home. The higher the impact fee, the higher the cost of the new home. In reality the new home owner pays the impact fee.
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  #195  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Advogado View Post
This post absolutely misses the point.

The Developer is responsible for the need for the new roads and should be paying for them through an increase in his sweetheart impact fee. He should also be paying for other infrastructure (like libraries, fire, and police stations, related equipment) the way he would say in Collier County, where he would be paying $20,000/house or more than 20 times more than he pays here.

Who makes up for the lost impact-fee revenue? You, I, and the other Sumter County taxpayers do. In reality, the tax increase is going into the Developer's pocket, right beside his County Commissioners.
To paraphrase "The Wizard of Oz", You're not in Collier County any more
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