[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Goldwingnut

The lack of ribbon burning and the degradation of the MMPs was brought up 2 or maybe 3 years ago when I was serving on the PWAC. I expressed my concerns over the long term stability and costs for maintaining them. I made the point that the lack of ribbon curbing was such a concern north of 44 for the roads in the PV and CYV communities that the individual CDD ended up funding the installations in these communities. I questioned why they were not included and could we mandate that they be installed going forward.

District staff said they would investigate and get back to us…
Two responses were received:
1. They examined the MMP and didn’t find any significant degradation except in one area around Bradford where heavy trucks had damaged the path and their was being repaired. - A complete load of BS, before I made my comments at the PWAC meeting I had already ridden down miles of the MMPs and seen dozens of locations where there was degradation and encroachment of the grass into the surface, I had also spent the evening of the Water Lilly bridge movement over the turnpike at the Water Lilly RC area and saw numerous areas were the walking paths had started to degrade after only a few months. This has been, is, and will continue to be an issue with the walking and MMPs south of 44. Eventually, these paths will either have to be resurfaced/rebuilt and/or ribbon curbing installed to stabilize them like they are north of 44. Either way it will come at considerable expense to the residents.
2. The ribbon curbing was eliminated as a cost savings measure. There are many more miles of walking and MMPs in the areas south of 44 than elsewhere in our community. This is due to the geography of the area and the large number of wetlands areas that were preserved resulting in longer paths and the addition of miles walking paths throughout the newer areas. It was a trade off, more paths or ribbon curbing. Had the ribbon curbing been installed it would have had a significant impact on the bonds that were issued for construction. (The bonds south of 44 are consistent with those north of 44 on a $/acre to developer, once you account for time and inflation over the many years, you cannot compare the raw numbers without looking at the rising cost/acre caused by inflation. But I’ve had this discussion several times here so no more rehash.). The walking and MMPs meet the “state standards”, I however argued that they didn’t meet the long established, but unwritten, “Villages Standards” for these paths, so the ribbon curbing isn’t mandated, and therefore not installed. A business decision, good short term but bad long term for the residents.

Because of the wetlands areas and grasses that abut the walking and MMPs the need for the stabilization provided by the ribbon curbing is needed more so in the areas south of 44 than they are needed in the existing areas north of 44.

There is a lot of validity to their side of the argument, however it comes down to pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later; well it looks like “now” is the long anticipated “later”.

As the MMP maintenance falls under the PWA as common infrastructure, all the residents south of 466 will eventually have to foot the bill for the PWF costs of repairs/upgrades. This was one of the many discussion points and reasons why PWAC2 was so favored by all the signatories of the PWA, well almost all. When the bill comes due for this, as it will eventually, all of us north of 44 must be sure to thank the board of CDD7 for their efforts in railroading the agreement with false and misguided intentions and not even taking the time to vote on the new agreement. Sorry for this side track, but it is a valid point that needed to be said.

The real question at hand needs to be will the CDD 12 & 13 boards and PWAC take the necessary actions now, to “fix” this issue now or will these paths be left to fester, rot, and decay until someone gets injured and they are forced to take decisive action to upgrade, at a much higher cost. Let your voices be heard now or let your wallet be hurt later.

Goldwingnut......I can count on you to set the record straight. Thank you for this very informative post. It verifies what I have been saying in this thread but so much more accurately and affirmatively.

[Bogie Shooter]

Is 19 posts on one thread a new record?

[BRN_RI_FL]

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by NoMo50

Not sure I agree with that statement. Different does not necessarily mean cheap. The newer developed areas south of SR-44 have many more miles of MMPs and walking/biking trails than the areas north of 44. The preservation of wetlands and preserves, along with the addition of miles and miles of trails was, in my opinion, a great feature to the southern villages. We meet people all the time who live north of SR-44 that come down south to enjoy the walking/biking trails. They don't seem to mind associating with us folks who live on "the wrong side of the tracks."

Have you read Goldwingnut's long informative post? Most certainly, it is a cost effective way to build the paths without the cement ribbon. My original statement that the infrastructure is built "on the cheap" still stands. Goldwingnut explains the reason for it but it doesn't change the fact that those paths are less expensive to build without the cement ribbon protecting the asphalt.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by BRN_RI_FL

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

Thank you for posting a photo. I wish I could do that. So, same thing with new construction in the north. This new generation is all about saving money.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by BRN_RI_FL

It’s not only the walking paths in the south, it’s the villa roadways in the north. Two different newer villas right of CR 42 have grass creeping into the roadways. I’ve complained but the answer was that is how they were designed.

That roadway will soon be cr*p unless Villagers pay for all of these repairs.

I would ignore the people who try to pull the subject off topic by pointing out how many posts someone has made. If you haven’t read the post from Goldwing Nut, go back and read the whole thing.

Villagers will be paying the freight for all repairs to inadequate mmp installations. It’s that simple and the damaged mmps will be ugly until the proper repairs are made.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by aces4

that roadway will soon be cr*p unless villagers pay for all of these repairs.

I would ignore the people who try to pull the subject off topic by pointing out how many posts someone has made. if you haven’t read the post from goldwing nut, go back and read the whole thing.

villagers will be paying the freight for all repairs to inadequate mmp installations. It’s that simple and the damaged mmps will be ugly until the proper repairs are made.

yup!

[Vermilion Villager]

Originally Posted by Oldragbagger

There is nothing at all that looks terrible or awful down here. It looks different from the north of 44 areas, but different doesn’t equal awful. To those who don’t like the look of it, the simple solution is to stay up north. This whole thread is BS and just seems like pot stirring from someone who has no skin in the game in the south of 44 area. Why the obsession with something that doesn’t need to concern them is a great question though .

EXACTLY! I'd say at least 50% of the owners down here South of 44 sold their homes North of 44 to move down. Has anyone EVER heard of a person who sold their home South of 44 to move North of 44?? I didn't think so.......

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager

EXACTLY! I'd say at least 50% of the owners down here South of 44 sold their homes North of 44 to move down. Has anyone EVER heard of a person who sold their home South of 44 to move North of 44?? I didn't think so.......

Did it occur to you that your “area” isn’t being trashed but that a feature of your area is being highlighted as a potential problem because it was installed improperly as Goldwing Nut pointed out?

[Goldwingnut]

Let me clarify one point, the walking and MMPs are of quality design and construction, they were not done “on the cheap” or substandard and will last for many years. They meet all state construction standards. Could they have been built better by using the ribbon curbing, absolutely. The fact is that in the subtropical Florida climate that we live in, thing grow very fast, especially grass and weeds, and they will attempt to overcome anything that is an obstacle before them.

Budgets are real, epically in the construction world, if the standards meet the budget but the upgrades do not, the upgraded (ribbon curbs) don’t happen. It’s not an attempt to cheat the residents, in this case it’s a matter of both budget and the massive size of the area south of 44 being developed that make them cost prohibitive.

[Daddymac]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

our mm paths north of 44 have cement "ribbons" lining each side of the paths. This cement prevents the grass from invading the asphalt and gives the landscapers a sharp edge to keep the grass edged.

I personally have not driven on the cart paths south of 44 but my sister routinely takes a ride in her golf cart on sundays south of 44. She has noticed that the paths down south do not have the cement "ribbon" along the sides of the asphalt. Without this ribbon of cement, the grass has invaded the asphalt and she told me those paths look awful.

Infrastructure on the cheap is what is happening down south. Too bad.

its all about the money money money money money money money ....... That is it

[rustyp]

And yet another PWAC success story.
- no curbing
- removal of amenity fee top stop
- water and wind tower replacement
- Sumter bridge erosion shore up

Keep those wallets open folks

[VApeople]

Originally Posted by Aces4

That roadway will soon be cr*p unless Villagers pay for all of these repairs.

Maybe a lot of Villagers like the roadways being crap.

When we lived in Fairfax County VA, there was one road with a lot of potholes and rough spots. The county government was going to have the road repaired, but the residents were very against it. The crappy road was making the cars drive slower, which they liked.

[VApeople]

Originally Posted by NoMo50

We meet people all the time who live north of SR-44 that come down south to enjoy the walking/biking trails.

Yes, we live north of SR-44 and we love the walking trails in the Southern Area. Our favorites are the one in Hawkins that goes along the marsh and the new one in DeLuna, which we walked yesterday.

[BRN_RI_FL]

Originally Posted by rustyp

And yet another PWAC success story.
- no curbing
- removal of amenity fee top stop
- water and wind tower replacement
- Sumter bridge erosion shore up

Keep those wallets open folks

You can add replacement of under-road drainage system in Soulliere.