[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

...We are trying hard to avoid venting - it seems to be working. The more we try to listen to the other side and find things we can agree with, the better we feel after the conversation.

Wise words, you GrumpyOldMan.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No, it's not. And the fact that you don't understand this is disheartening. Americans who committed atrocities on civilians in Vietnam were driven by hate, and not mentally ill - yet. When they came back, that's another story.

People who were led into following the Nazi regime, believing in the dogma, and committing atrocities in the name of hatred of "other" during WWII - were not mentally ill.

People who are committing atrocities now in the name of hatred of "other" are not mentally ill. Only 22% of mass shootings in the USA were committed by the mentally ill. The other 78% were NOT mentally ill. They acted out of hate and fear of "other." Those acts were driven by people of influence, who led them to the hatred and fear with words, actions, or a combination of both.

I agree especially about the Nazis, there is a difference between mentally ill and just plain evil, for me.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

What is it with guns?

Why do people love these so much?

You only need a gun for home protection and maybe some for hunting.

Sorry, guys, but I do believe in many cases owning a gun is a macho thing.

Yes, I would be willing to make book that that is a fact in a number of cases.

And yeah . . . . . I can't wait to hear the responses to this post!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No, it's not. And the fact that you don't understand this is disheartening. Americans who committed atrocities on civilians in Vietnam were driven by hate, and not mentally ill - yet. When they came back, that's another story.

People who were led into following the Nazi regime, believing in the dogma, and committing atrocities in the name of hatred of "other" during WWII - were not mentally ill.

People who are committing atrocities now in the name of hatred of "other" are not mentally ill. Only 22% of mass shootings in the USA were committed by the mentally ill. The other 78% were NOT mentally ill. They acted out of hate and fear of "other." Those acts were driven by people of influence, who led them to the hatred and fear with words, actions, or a combination of both.

You will never convince me that anyone in a normal state of mind murders in cold blood. A dysfunctional brain can causes evil actions. One may hypothesize but to state a mass murderer is normal but evil is hiding the truth, IMHO.

[Midnight Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

I don't agree. I think that all terrorists are demented and mentally ill.
I think anyone who shoots people in cold blood for whatever reason is mentally ill.

I respectfully disagree. You weren't raised that way and the same holds true for most of us. Don't you see what hate has done in the world today?

I'd be willing to bet that these perpetrators -- these kids -- were raised by bigoted, narrow-minded parents who instilled hatred in their kids' minds. We all know this kind of mentality is environmental and starts at home. It is a learned process.

[Nipper]

Those who ignore atrocities of the past, are doomed to repeat them.

Originally Posted by Aces4

You will never convince me that anyone in a normal state of mind murders in cold blood. A dysfunctional brain can causes evil actions. One may hypothesize but to state a mass murderer is normal but evil is hiding the truth, IMHO.

There have been numerous studies of the brains of serial killers to see if in fact there is evidence to support that they are pre-wired to do this. While there are some areas of the brain that had common denominators for this type of behavior they found that the killers also generally suffered from some type of abuse. There is no clear cut answer.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I agree especially about the Nazis, there is a difference between mentally ill and just plain evil, for me.

It's not evil, either. It is indoctrinated. HUGE difference. There are people who would otherwise not be committing atrocities - who are, because they have been indoctrinated. This will continue until the indoctrination stops.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by fw102807

There have been numerous studies of the brains of serial killers to see if in fact there is evidence to support that they are pre-wired to do this. While there are some areas of the brain that had common denominators for this type of behavior they found that the killers also generally suffered from some type of abuse. There is no clear cut answer.

The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.

[manaboutown]

Just a few days ago a grandmother likely stopped another one from happening. Officials say Grandmother Stopped 19-Year-Old Man From Carrying out Mass Shooting in Texas

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.

If you believe your posts, you must have read the online notes the Ohio murderer left explaining why he was going to commit the heinous act. So how do we eliminate the source of his angst so he wouldn’t have those evil thoughts?

How could we have kept the shooter away from the diatribes and accusations he heard constantly even thought it was just that, diatribe. That’s the donkey in the room. Constant harrassment he witnessed must have pushed him over.

[Fredster]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I'm wide awake. The original "assault weapon" was coined by the Germans in WWII to describe the StG44 rifle. Sturmgewehr is the name given to this rifle has been roughly translated to mean assault rifle. The German word Sturm actually means storm, like bad weather. The StG 44 was an intermediate caliber select fire weapon which means it could be fired in semi-automatic or full automatic mode by a selector switch. The full automatic function is what makes it an assault rifle. In storming an enemy position the automatic mode allows a heavy amount of fire to suppress the return fire until you can close with the enemy and kill him at point blank distance. A semi-auto won't fill this job. A lot of misinformed people believe that AR in AR15 means "assault rifle". It means Armalite Rifle. Armalite is the company that built the rifle designed by Eugene Stoner, the inventor of the rifle. The military named it the M16 which is a full automatic rifle. Assault Rifle is a term used by the media to create a sinister connotation for the AR15.

Thanks for clarifying that.
It might help some commenters on this forum,
that really have very limited firearm knowledge.

Originally Posted by Jazuela

The issue isn't about serial killers. Mass shooters who tell you exactly why they are doing it ("to stop the invasion" for example) are not serial killers.

They have been indoctrinated into believing there is an invasion, that this invasion is harming them, and that this invasion needs to be stopped.

They are not intrinsically evil people. They are people who have been duped into believing they are saving lives. And it will continue to get worse because of those who say "oh they're mentally ill" or "my right to own a gun is all-important" or "fake media" "this or that political whatever." Otherwise intelligent people choosing to ignore, or forgive, or pretend that this elephant doesn't exist.

It exists, it is ugly, it is telling otherwise mundane people that a) they need to be angry, b) it is "other's" fault, and c) if they got violent, it'd be okay.

Most people who have a "cause" protest or find some other way to draw attention to it, they do not go around killing innocent people. These people are killers.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by fw102807

Most people who have a "cause" protest or find some other way to draw attention to it, they do not go around killing innocent people. These people are killers.

I believe psychos is the correct term.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Midnight Cowgirl

I'd be willing to bet that these perpetrators -- these kids -- were raised by bigoted, narrow-minded parents who instilled hatred in their kids' minds. We all know this kind of mentality is environmental and starts at home. It is a learned process.

I respectfully disagree.
I think anyone who has hatred to the extent that they feel like killing people in cold blood is mentally ill.
Hate and anger, or mentally ill - it doesn't really matter.
It's a sick, evil person who thinks it's their right to kill innocent people.
It somehow makes it worse when the evil person kills children.