[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Here and else where in the world...taking the tools away may help, however as stated above much evil killing is done regardless.
If those who would do us harm are intent on doing so, taking away one "tool" would have them turn to something just as lethal.

That is why I always say, it ain't the gun!!!

It is the assault rifle. Take a good look at what happened in Dayton, Ohio. 2019 Dayton shooting - Wikipedia

The police killed the shooter within 30 seconds or so after he opened up with an assault type weapon.

At 1:05 a.m., eyewitnesses reported that a man opened fire at the entrance of Ned Peppers Bar in the Oregon Historic District.[8] He was carrying a firearm that included part of an Anderson Manufacturing semi-automatic AM-15 (based on the AR-15)[9][1] in a pistol configuration with a shortened barrel, chambered in .223 caliber ammunition and equipped with a 100-round drum magazine.[2] He fired into crowds and fatally shot nine people.[10][11]

According to Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl, 20 seconds after the shooting began,[5] law enforcement officers already on the scene engaged the gunman.[12] Within 30 seconds after the first shots were fired,[5] the gunman was shot dead.[13] Local police evacuated many nearby night venues, and warned Dayton residents to stay away from the Oregon Historic District.[13]

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

If it's not the gun, then hey - let everyone keep their guns, buy as many as they like, as many varieties as they can get their hands on.
and then...

ban the bullets.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

If it's not the gun, then hey - let everyone keep their guns, buy as many as they like, as many varieties as they can get their hands on.
and then...

ban the bullets.

The wacko that is going to commit harm has to go out and buy bullets.

True gun enthusiasts, the 98.965784% law abiding gun owners, have thousands of rounds of what they shoot on hand.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by billethkid

The wacko that is going to commit harm has to go out and buy bullets.

True gun enthusiasts, the 98.965784% law abiding gun owners, have thousands of rounds of what they shoot on hand.

And I might add, thousands of rounds of multiple calibers. And it might be more soon if there is talk of banning, taxing, limiting, bullets. There is always a run on ammo and firearms when these tragedies hit. That's just fact.
Steve

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

If it's not the gun, then hey - let everyone keep their guns, buy as many as they like, as many varieties as they can get their hands on.
and then...

ban the bullets.

Why don't we just cut out the middle man and ban mass murderers?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Here's some constructive ideas for consideration:

1. Raise the purchase age to 21, with a waiver for anyone 18-21 who can prove they are living independently.
2. Tighten and strictly enforce the domestic violence law: if you have been convicted of violating domestic violence law, you are automatically registered, and automatically disqualified and legally unable to purchase any firearm. Eliminate the "loop hole" that allows a do-over for anyone whose sentence was reduced/removed, or who pleads guilty to a lesser charge. If you beat your husband, if you clocked your son over the head with his cell phone, if you punched your mom when she tried to ground you for smoking in the back yard, you can't legally own a gun, period. Studies show that domestic violence is one of the main indicators of future violence.
3. Change the culture of people who choose to be armed, and make all firearms come with a trigger lock on the gun right out of the box, sold in the locked position.
4. Increase funding for mental health care, and reduce or even completely eliminate the cost of mental health care for the poor and other under-represented people in this country.

Will any of these things fix the problem? Nope. Will all of these things contribute to reducing the problem? Yup.

[anothersteve]

Minimum Age to Purchase & Possess | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

Extreme Risk Laws - EverytownResearch.org

Safe Storage | Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

The Federal and State Role in Mental Health | Mental Health America

How exactly does one "change the culture" of people who choose to be armed?

Steve

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Here's some constructive ideas for consideration:

1. Raise the purchase age to 21, with a waiver for anyone 18-21 who can prove they are living independently.
2. Tighten and strictly enforce the domestic violence law: if you have been convicted of violating domestic violence law, you are automatically registered, and automatically disqualified and legally unable to purchase any firearm. Eliminate the "loop hole" that allows a do-over for anyone whose sentence was reduced/removed, or who pleads guilty to a lesser charge. If you beat your husband, if you clocked your son over the head with his cell phone, if you punched your mom when she tried to ground you for smoking in the back yard, you can't legally own a gun, period. Studies show that domestic violence is one of the main indicators of future violence.
3. Change the culture of people who choose to be armed, and make all firearms come with a trigger lock on the gun right out of the box, sold in the locked position.
4. Increase funding for mental health care, and reduce or even completely eliminate the cost of mental health care for the poor and other under-represented people in this country.

Will any of these things fix the problem? Nope. Will all of these things contribute to reducing the problem? Yup.

Those are all good ideas.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Trigger locks are not part of the gun culture, in general. Most people with firearms don't have them, don't use them, and some don't even know what they are. Similarly to drivers of cars and trucks: The vast majority of drivers buckle up - not because it's the law, but because the law and the existence of these belts have changed the culture of drivers.

So change the culture of gun owners, by having all firearms come with trigger locks installed and locked, upon initial sale. Some folks won't use them. But eventually, more people will, than won't, because this one change will have changed the culture such that their use is just an automatic thing people do. Like stopping at red lights - those didn't always exist, afterall. But the culture was changed. Even a typical law-breaking person who drives too fast, is very likely to stop at a red light as opposed to ignoring it.

There's no barrier preventing anyone from running a red light. But they stop anyway. Because the culture has changed.

That's what I mean about changing the culture of gun owners.

[tophcfa]

I finally read something that seems to make a lot of sense to me as a very reasonable idea to help prevent future mass shootings. The White House has instructed the Department of Justice to work with large internet social media companies such as Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, to develop tools to help identify potential mass murders BEFORE they commit a horrible crime. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been conclusively demonstrated that almost all mass murderers (over the last few years) have had a very strong social media presence including tell tale posts indicative of their intensions.

[anothersteve]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Trigger locks are not part of the gun culture, in general. Most people with firearms don't have them, don't use them, and some don't even know what they are. Similarly to drivers of cars and trucks: The vast majority of drivers buckle up - not because it's the law, but because the law and the existence of these belts have changed the culture of drivers.

So change the culture of gun owners, by having all firearms come with trigger locks installed and locked, upon initial sale. Some folks won't use them. But eventually, more people will, than won't, because this one change will have changed the culture such that their use is just an automatic thing people do. Like stopping at red lights - those didn't always exist, afterall. But the culture was changed. Even a typical law-breaking person who drives too fast, is very likely to stop at a red light as opposed to ignoring it.

There's no barrier preventing anyone from running a red light. But they stop anyway. Because the culture has changed.

That's what I mean about changing the culture of gun owners.

No need to link it again

"In October 2005, as part of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, Congress passed and the President signed into law legislation making it unlawful for any licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer to sell or transfer any handgun unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device.16 The law includes various exceptions, including transfers to other federal firearms licensees, law enforcement officers, and federal, state or local agencies.17 The legislation does not apply to transfers by private sellers, and does not require that transferees use the device.18"

Steve

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I finally read something that seems to make a lot of sense to me as a very reasonable idea to help prevent future mass shootings. The White House has instructed the Department of Justice to work with large internet social media companies such as Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, to develop tools to help identify potential mass murders BEFORE they commit a horrible crime. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been conclusively demonstrated that almost all mass murderers (over the last few years) have had a very strong social media presence including tell tale posts indicative of their intensions.

That is something anyway. Maybe someone watched the show Elementary this season which is precisely about this and a bigwig businessman who goes down the path of killing people his search engines show MIGHT become such mass murderers. Sherlock Holmes and Watson are trying to take this madman down. No human being should play God. And this man, the search engine Guru, is a narcissistic sociopath IMHO. He is extremely bright though.

And I would guess many of the friends of would be mass shooters are already telling the FBI and local police about friends and acquaintances they think might do something horrible. They have stopped would be shooters this way. I think one at the Villages Charter School was stopped by someone alerting a school authority of stuff he/she had heard on the social grape vine. That was after Parkland I believe much not very long after it. I could be wrong however.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by anothersteve

No need to link it again

"In October 2005, as part of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, Congress passed and the President signed into law legislation making it unlawful for any licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer to sell or transfer any handgun unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device.16 The law includes various exceptions, including transfers to other federal firearms licensees, law enforcement officers, and federal, state or local agencies.17 The legislation does not apply to transfers by private sellers, and does not require that transferees use the device.18"

Steve

"provided with" secure storage OR safety device is not the same thing as "having all firearms come with trigger locks installed and locked, upon initial sale."
It's not the same thing. I was being very specific with my words.

Not just any gun storage, not "provided with" - which doesn't require that the gun is LOCKED when it's sold, only that the option for the gun owner to lock it is provided.

Opt in vs. opt out. It sounds like a small distinction but it's significant.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

I finally read something that seems to make a lot of sense to me as a very reasonable idea to help prevent future mass shootings. The White House has instructed the Department of Justice to work with large internet social media companies such as Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, to develop tools to help identify potential mass murders BEFORE they commit a horrible crime. With the benefit of hindsight, it has been conclusively demonstrated that almost all mass murderers (over the last few years) have had a very strong social media presence including tell tale posts indicative of their intensions.

That will just drive the criminals to find any of the myriad of other media options available to them. For instance - 8chan, which is where one of the shooters posted. I'd never heard of it til this week. But obviously one of the shooters did.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

That will just drive the criminals to find any of the myriad of other media options available to them. For instance - 8chan, which is where one of the shooters posted. I'd never heard of it til this week. But obviously one of the shooters did.

There is a dark web that most of us know nothing about. You need special software to access it. They do talk about it a lot in law and order like TV shows.