[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by ahayward65

What is the difference? You are using a comparison that is not realistic. Like so many gun owners and protectionists of the 2nd amendent , you carry it to the extreme. Reasonable people do NOT want to take all guns away. Just put restrictions on the way guns are sold and the types of guns that can be purchased. Background checks, waiting periods, types of guns sold is not a ban on all weapons. You have been tricked, scared and intimidated by the false rhetoric surrounding this issue.

That is why people that know nothing about guns shouldn't give opinions about gun types. Those two rifles I pictured are functionally almost identical. They are both magazine fed semi automatic rifles chambered in .223. Each pull of the trigger sends a round down range. The term "Assault Weapon" is the most overused/abused buzz word out there.

Because one looks like a Military M4 people think it's more deadly than a ranch rifle.

And even if you do get rid of "Assault Rifles" what about pistols? You can get 30 round magazines for most semi automatic pistols. So now we get rid of "Assault Rifles" and pistols?

[GrumpyOldMan]

If you ban those guns, only the mentally unstable will have them.

Well, I guess if only one potential shooter was unable to acquire the weapon and so that one did not kill 26 people that would be worth something to those 26 people's family, children and friends.

And to look at it another way, how many AK47s or AR15s in the hands of good gun owners have been used to prevent or end actual mass shootings? Since your reference of only mentally unstable (or criminals) would have access to them would imply that others having access in some way would or does help prevent these mass shootings.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

There are already federal laws concerning the sale, possession and transportation of guns. Convicted felons cannot buy, own or possess a firearm, period. People adjudicated as being too mentally ill to possess firearms are prohibited also as is the felon. You must undergo and pass a background check before you can purchase one. What further restrictions do you think will correct the problem?

That is not entirely true. You only have to undergo and pass a background check to buy from a licensed dealer. You do NOT have to undergo a background check for a private sale transaction. Gun show buyers do NOT have to undergo background checks, except in states where the STATE has required it.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, I guess if only one potential shooter was unable to acquire the weapon and so that one did not kill 26 people that would be worth something to those 26 people's family, children and friends.

And to look at it another way, how many AK47s or AR15s in the hands of good gun owners have been used to prevent or end actual mass shootings? Since your reference of only mentally unstable (or criminals) would have access to them would imply that others having access in some way would or does help prevent these mass shootings.

Think about the carnage if the mentally ill or criminals knew the bulk of the population was unarmed with weapons like theirs. You think that scenerio would make no difference? I couldn’t disagree more.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Think about the carnage if the mentally ill or criminals knew the bulk of the population was unarmed with weapons like theirs. You think that scenerio would make no difference? I couldn’t disagree more.

Not going to happen.

These shooters are rarely mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists who know full well what they are doing.

And they go to places that they can expect have security with weapons that can stop them as soon as they are seen by security.

The point is how much damage can be done by guns designed for the military even if arms manufacturers have altered them for profit and sold them to the public. You reduce the number of guns being sold you at least get these weapons out of some hands. It is not a cure all. But it is something.

Taming the out-of- control gun culture is critical.

[Velvet]

Not sure if gun control would make much difference, a child can make a Molotov cocktail.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Not going to happen.

These shooters are rarely mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists who know full well what they are doing.

And they go to places that they can expect have security with weapons that can stop them as soon as they are seen by security.

The point is how much damage can be done by guns designed for the military even if arms manufacturers have altered them for profit and sold them to the public. You reduce the number of guns being sold you at least get these weapons out of some hands. It is not a cure all. But it is something.

Taming the out-of- control gun culture is critical.

I totally disagree. Mental illness is a wide spectrum and a normal person does not dream of executing large groups of people. Did you read this executioner’s manifesto? Deviousness is part of the illness. I don’t want the upper edge with the wrong group of people.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Think about the carnage if the mentally ill or criminals knew the bulk of the population was unarmed with weapons like theirs. You think that scenerio would make no difference? I couldn’t disagree more.

Well, we can easily prove if gun control has or has not worked, we can not prove what "might happen".

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, we can easily prove if gun control has or has not worked, we can not prove what "might happen".

Once the government unarms it’s citizens there is no going back.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

That is not entirely true. You only have to undergo and pass a background check to buy from a licensed dealer. You do NOT have to undergo a background check for a private sale transaction. Gun show buyers do NOT have to undergo background checks, except in states where the STATE has required it.

Congratulations, you have done some research. Yes, I can sell one of my guns to a private individual without a background check. But it is against the law for a prohibited person to buy that gun from me so there is a law that make its illegal. You said that there needs to be laws that prevent the wrong people from obtaining a gun and there already is one on the books. You did state that laws prevent crime.
Now as to gun show sales. The majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed firearms dealers and must conduct a background check on all buyers. Yes there are a few private sellers at gun shows that sell a gun or two. A lot of gun shows have an individual there that will do background checks for private sellers and there are some shows that require it. Do some more research on where criminals obtain guns. Very few get them at gun shows or from private sellers. The majority get them from straw purchasers. A straw purchaser is a person who is not prohibited from buying and possessing a firearm that buys a gun in their name for a person prohibited from possessing a gun. It is illegal to do a straw purchase, another law that is on the books to control guns. Prosecutors rarely prosecute a straw purchaser. No prosecution, no deterrent to commit the crime. To a lesser degree criminals obtain stolen guns. In Tennessee a few years back there was a rash of gun store burglaries in Nashville and surrounding communities resulting quite a number of stolen guns. Burglary is illegal.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Once the government unarms it’s citizens there is no going back.

That is very true, and can be proven by looking at history where it has happened. So we agree with that statement.

Now, could you point out how it is relevant on this thread? Has anyone proposed disarming "it's citizens"?

I understand the fear of a slippery slope, and agree it can not be allowed. But that is a far cry from the other slippery slope of not allowing any controls or restrictions. Would you agree that Nuclear weapons should not be permitted to be owned by citizens? Why not? After all Nuclear Weapons don't kill people, people kill people.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Not sure if gun control would make much difference, a child can make a Molotov cocktail.

Many years ago my father related a story to me about a guy that got into a fight in a bar and came out on the losing end. He walked down the street, purchased a gas can and filled it at a gas station. He took the gas can and made a Molotov cocktail out of it and rolled through the door into the bar. Luckily he didn't kill anyone but several were burned and it destroyed the bar.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Not going to happen.

These shooters are rarely mentally ill. They are domestic terrorists who know full well what they are doing.

And they go to places that they can expect have security with weapons that can stop them as soon as they are seen by security.

The point is how much damage can be done by guns designed for the military even if arms manufacturers have altered them for profit and sold them to the public. You reduce the number of guns being sold you at least get these weapons out of some hands. It is not a cure all. But it is something.

Taming the out-of- control gun culture is critical.

Taming the out of control violent culture is critical. Guns have been a part of this country since even before its inception. The AR-15 came out in the 60's. So you can't blame the problem on that.

Mass shootings are a current trend. Social media is a current trend. Shutting down mental health facilities is a (relatively) current trend. The AR-15 style rifle is not a current trend.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Velvet

Not sure if gun control would make much difference, a child can make a Molotov cocktail.

That's how we used to get rid of wasp nests..

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Taming the out of control violent culture is critical. Guns have been a part of this country since even before its inception. The AR-15 came out in the 60's. So you can't blame the problem on that.

Mass shootings are a current trend. Social media is a current trend. Shutting down mental health facilities is a (relatively) current trend. The AR-15 style rifle is not a current trend.

I am also sure you know the generally accepted first mass shooting was in 1963 (or 1964 - not sure now) with a student in a tower at a Texas college/university, using a rifle. It is still ranked around 11th as most deadly mass shooting. So, we could say the modern mass shooting "thing" started there.