[New Englander]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Tell me the difference between these two rifles.. Which one is an "Assault Weapon"? One is a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle, the other an AR-15.

Nothing different. They may label the mini-14 a ranch rifle but it's really an assault rifle. I am familiar with weapons.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I am also sure you know the generally accepted first mass shooting was in 1963 (or 1964 - not sure now) with a student in a tower at a Texas college/university, using a rifle. It is still ranked around 11th as most deadly mass shooting. So, we could say the modern mass shooting "thing" started there.

Actually it was in 1966. The gunman used an M-1 carbine and other rifles, a revolver and shotgun.

The next mass shooting was in 1975, then 1982. 2009 is when things really started to get bad.

ETA: I was referencing an article that listed mass shootings of 10 or more people.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

A huge part of the problem is an elephant in the room that gets threads shut down. So there's really no point in discussing it at all, because you can't discuss the root of the CURRENT situation.

I will state though - it isn't mental illness. Only 22% of all mass shootings involved a shooter who was declared mentally ill.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by ahayward65

Wake up! Have you heard about the assault weapons available to
buy by any Tom, Dick or Harry ! Pass some laws that ban the sale of these types of weapons, that would be a start. Alas too many of our members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.

I'm wide awake. The original "assault weapon" was coined by the Germans in WWII to describe the StG44 rifle. Sturmgewehr is the name given to this rifle has been roughly translated to mean assault rifle. The German word Sturm actually means storm, like bad weather. The StG 44 was an intermediate caliber select fire weapon which means it could be fired in semi-automatic or full automatic mode by a selector switch. The full automatic function is what makes it an assault rifle. In storming an enemy position the automatic mode allows a heavy amount of fire to suppress the return fire until you can close with the enemy and kill him at point blank distance. A semi-auto won't fill this job. A lot of misinformed people believe that AR in AR15 means "assault rifle". It means Armalite Rifle. Armalite is the company that built the rifle designed by Eugene Stoner, the inventor of the rifle. The military named it the M16 which is a full automatic rifle. Assault Rifle is a term used by the media to create a sinister connotation for the AR15.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

Actually it was in 1966. The gunman used an M-1 carbine and other rifles, a revolver and shotgun.

The next mass shooting was in 1975, then 1982. 2009 is when things really started to get bad.

ETA: I was referencing an article that listed mass shootings of 10 or more people.

Thanks for the correction, I was only 16 at the time, so I was not paying much attention.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Thanks for the correction, I was only 16 at the time, so I was not paying much attention.

Don't feel bad, I was only three..

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Fixing mental illness issues doesn't solve a darned thing. The Sandy Hook killer was mentally ill, and was not a gun owner. His MOTHER was a gun owner. And here's the source of the song "I don't like Mondays" by the Boom Town Rats:

In early 1978, staff at a facility for problem students, into which Spencer had been referred for truancy, informed her parents that she was suicidal. That summer, Spencer, who was known to hunt birds in the neighborhood, was arrested for shooting out the windows of Cleveland Elementary with a BB gun and for burglary.[1][9] In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.[5][7] Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and he bought me a gun." When asked why he might have done that, she answered, "I felt like he wanted me to kill myself." [7][10]

She was clearly mentally ill, and was seeking help. Her father, who was NOT mentally ill, provided her with the weapon that she used to shoot down students and teachers at the Cleveland Elementary School in 1979.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

That is very true, and can be proven by looking at history where it has happened. So we agree with that statement.

Now, could you point out how it is relevant on this thread? Has anyone proposed disarming "it's citizens"?

I understand the fear of a slippery slope, and agree it can not be allowed. But that is a far cry from the other slippery slope of not allowing any controls or restrictions. Would you agree that Nuclear weapons should not be permitted to be owned by citizens? Why not? After all Nuclear Weapons don't kill people, people kill people.

I’m more interested in the facts we are discussing about guns but a quick comment on all possibilities you want to examine.

You are proposing we need to ban cars also because one may be killed while in one with intention by a mentally deranged person?

Just how many items does the government need to ban to protect us? No thought is given to the obvious, monitoring the mentally ill. We have total invasion of our lives with cyber information gathering for everything but no one suggests monitoring bizarre behavior and information gathering by the mentally ill.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

A huge part of the problem is an elephant in the room that gets threads shut down. So there's really no point in discussing it at all, because you can't discuss the root of the CURRENT situation.

I will state though - it isn't mental illness. Only 22% of all mass shootings involved a shooter who was declared mentally ill.

I don’t believe mentally healthy people EVER consider slaughtering groups of people randomly and for any reason other than self defense. We’d all be walking around murdering people if that was the case.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Fixing mental illness issues doesn't solve a darned thing. The Sandy Hook killer was mentally ill, and was not a gun owner. His MOTHER was a gun owner. And here's the source of the song "I don't like Mondays" by the Boom Town Rats:



She was clearly mentally ill, and was seeking help. Her father, who was NOT mentally ill, provided her with the weapon that she used to shoot down students and teachers at the Cleveland Elementary School in 1979.

Can we then think of institutions for the mentally ill. Do you realize how difficult it is to get help for a deranged person? Why do you think those stats are so low? People who has slipped through the cracks aren’t counted.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

These shootings have been driven by hate. You want to address the shootings, then address the encouragement of hate, the culture that promotes it, that feeds it, that profits from it.

Til then, you will see more of them.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

These shootings have been driven by hate. You want to address the shootings, then address the encouragement of hate, the culture that promotes it, that feeds it, that profits from it.

Til then, you will see more of them.

And that I would associate with modern tv programs, computer gaming and unparented children lost to society along with mental illness and psychosis.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

These shootings have been driven by hate. You want to address the shootings, then address the encouragement of hate, the culture that promotes it, that feeds it, that profits from it.

Til then, you will see more of them.

I don't believe there is one cause, but a lot of reasons. I believe the desire for peer approval, the desire to be remembered, a desire for power over people, lots of reasons - among them hate.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

I don't believe there is one cause, but a lot of reasons. I believe the desire for peer approval, the desire to be remembered, a desire for power over people, lots of reasons - among them hate.

True.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

These shootings have been driven by hate. You want to address the shootings, then address the encouragement of hate, the culture that promotes it, that feeds it, that profits from it.

Til then, you will see more of them.

The Austin, Texas U of TX tower shooter might have been mentally ill. But a lot of these other mass murderers are basically evil. And should be judged that way in a court of law. Like the one in El Paso, Texas. He planned a terrorist attack and carried it out fully knowing what he was doing. It was premeditated mass murder. Charles Whitman - Wikipedia