Originally Posted by rshoffer

Actually, "A Beautiful Mind" was a fairly accurate depiction of one's slide into the abyss of psychosis and the impact on one's family. Cuckoo's nest allowed Nicholson's genius to depict the plight of a personality disorder in the grips of abuses as they occurred in the state hospital system.

Maternal infanticide, fortunately a very rare event, typically involves a likewise rare but VERY dangerous and potentially lethal mental illness that occurs in the post-partum period. this is called post-partum psychosis. This is not post-partum blues or the clinical entity, post-partum depression. A mother with post-partum psychosis is delusional (complete loss of touch with reality) and typically has some crazed notion that she's given offspring to the devil, or that the child must be sacrificed etc. It requires immediate hospitalization and separation from the newborn/infant. Even more rare is the development of a psychotic illness after the post-partum period where the child again becomes incorporated into the delusional system of the mother and the mother kills the child while psychotic.

It seems fairly evident that Casey Anthony's level of functioning through this period of time was not influenced by a psychotic mental illness, since, if that were the case, her attorneys would have had an obligation to have her examined and her psychotic state addressed. Of course , it would be irresponsible to comment on her mental state without examining her and having all the history. One can only speculate.

So, for the moment, let's not talk about Casey Anthony, let's ask... what would make a NON-DELUSIONAL,NON-PSYCHOTIC mother kill her child? Probably the most common reason this occurs is due to the confluence of character pathology (immaturity, selfishness, greed, irresponsibility, narcissism, sociopathy) and often, substance abuse (drug/alcohol addiction) and an unwanted child. Often the child is killed and the intention was not to kill the child...eg: an immature, irresponsible,drug dependent sociopathic mother wants to go out and party and gives her 4 year old ambien and alcohol so they sleep through the night... only to return to find the child stopped breathing (a case for second degree murder)... Or, imagine someone with borderline intelligence, poor, no support system, who can barely take care of herself, no spouse, living alone with an infant who has cried days due to a severe ear infection and mom shakes the baby to death to get it to stop crying. (not a rare event). In 2004, The American Journal of Psychiatry did a nice review article on this subject, written by Margaret Spinelli, MD.
The killing of a child is so repugnant and horrific that it demands retribution. We will all get to watch as the law now determines the course of this story.

My problem with some of these movies is that they fictionalize mental illness to such a degree that when people see it in reality in often colors their perception so much that they lose objectivity. Here is a link about the movie vs. the book A Beautiful Mind http://math.cofc.edu/kasman/MATHFICT...llnumber=mf181 .

I enjoyed the book A Beautiful Mind a lot more as it did not whitewash the subject of the biography nor make the mental illness seem so over-the-top that ordinary people would have a hard time recognizing a paranoid schizophrenic in their own lives.

One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest both the book and the movie were great entertainment IMHO but again can influence how people few the mental health system NOW to such a degree that it has little to do with how various institutions operate today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Fle...7s_Nest_(novel) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Fle...9;s_Nest_(film)

Comparing Casey Anthony to another woman that killed her kid (s), I see quite a lot of difference between how these perpetrators acted. Susan Smith seems to be quite different in how she did her crimes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

I have little doubt that Casey Anthony did indeed murder her daughter-- Caylee Anthony -- and then tried to blame someone else for it which does seem a little bit like Susan Smith.

[billethkid]

some attention/sympathy away from the precious child/victim.
While she has to be proven guilty she certainly has been a non grieving parent.
Who would not report a missing child for over a month.....correct....NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those offering her a sympathetic thought, just keep in mind the person putting duct tape across the beautiful child's mouth while stuffing her in a plastic bag. That is the image to dwell upon not her lawyers BS or her emotional shenanigans.
The very worst of human behavior. Think and pray for the child.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread but could not resist...

BTK

Originally Posted by billethkid

some attention/sympathy away from the precious child/victim.
While she has to be proven guilty she certainly has been a non grieving parent.
Who would not report a missing child for over a month.....correct....NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those offering her a sympathetic thought, just keep in mind the person putting duct tape across the beautiful child's mouth while stuffing her in a plastic bag. That is the image to dwell upon not her lawyers BS or her emotional shenanigans.
The very worst of human behavior. Think and pray for the child.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread but could not resist...

BTK

Seems like it has been others-- like me-- who have hijacked the thread, billethkid.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by tucson

I've been following this case since the beginning and I've always felt that there's been a sick & evil "family cover-up",re;George (a former homicide detective),Cindy(a nurse) and the brother Lee. Casey is a by-product of parents that enabled her all her life to be an immoral,irresponsible and self-serving egomaniac. Now, they are expecting to "get her off of a murder charge by lying for her and hiring "PR" spokesmens, plus getting the "top" defense lawyers & forensic experts in the country. And now Cindy & Casey are writing a book??!! (another OJ) It truly makes me sick to think our tax dollars are being wasted on these people because of all the lies this whole sick & evil family has fabricated and falsely led the FBI & Orlando PD around for the last 6 mos. I hope to God that little Caylee gets justice and the WHOLE truth will come out. This case stinks to high heavens.

Tucson, I agree 100% with your assessment of the situation. The parents have protected their sociopathic daughter all her life and are still trying to do so. Casey has wasted hundreds of thousands of tax dollars by lying to the police and FBI. These are enabling parents in denial .. still choosing to believe that this precious daughter (who has even stolen from her grandmother) is incapable of murder. This is an unbelievably disfunctional and delusional family. Poor little Caylee, that sweet innocent child, may God rest her soul.

This is a source for good analysis of the Casey Anthony case as it progresses. Tends to be quite liberal for the most part though.

This http://news.findlaw.com/ap/other/111...002007_16.html is just a news story but you should look for the more in depth commentaries by various defense and prosecution lawyers and/or law professors which should start appearing on Findlaw when the trial heats up whenever that is.

Here is a link to the Legal Commentary. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ Right now it mostly looks like what these "experts" hope that the Obama administration will do.

[bestmickey]

The entire family is guilty of a cover-up (at a minimum). While she certainly did not deserve to be murdered, considering that "sick" family she lived with, precious baby Caylee is now in a much better place ... in God's arms. Cindy, George and Lee all should be charged with their crimes and should all serve time in jail.

I want to see Casey put with the general population in jail. Let's do it immediately, to save the taxpayers of Florida some money. Why bother holding a trial?

Let's give Casey one final Christmas present. Knowing she loves the attention, lets put her in the general population WITH a video camera of the main gathering rooms. Let her get more media coverage, play the video on CNN. This would be one murder I'd enjoy viewing.

May God forever bless Caylee.

[tucson]

Heard on NBC this am that FBI wants the finger prints of Cindy,George & Lee Anthony, (they'll probably decline) and it was also stated that the Anthony's believe that someone else killed Caylee and "planted" her remains near the Anthony home to "make it look like Casey did it". I knew that this would be their next "story"!!!!!!

Originally Posted by tucson

Heard on NBC this am that FBI wants the finger prints of Cindy,George & Lee Anthony, (they'll probably decline) and it was also stated that the Anthony's believe that someone else killed Caylee and "planted" her remains near the Anthony home to "make it look like Casey did it". I knew that this would be their next "story"!!!!!!

I suppose if any other children of Caylee's size, hair color and sex had gone missing from their neighborhood that someone would have brought that up by now? So, these probably are Callie's remains.

Wonder what motive someone would have for framing Casey Anthony for the murder of Caylee? Unless, this person knew the Anthonys and was in a caregiving role of Callie I see little motive for framing Casey unless it was to throw blame from someone who would otherwise be a very likely suspect.

[Peggy D]

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Personally, I hope they seek the Death Penalty for Casey Anthony. If they do not, I hope they put her into the general population of the prison where she will surely be taken care of by someone. Child killers and molesters are not tolerated be even the most hardened of criminals. I honestly do not feel one bit sorry for what happens to her now. This entire thing just turns my stomach.

Casey reminds me of a female Scott Peterson. Complete Sociopath! There is not room in society for this type of personality and why should we as taxpayers pay for their care and feeding. She's a waste of space on this planet.

As far as the grandparents go, I have watched them on Larry King and they are either delusional or complete liars. I'm sorry, a mother knows her child. I think the mother Cindy (maybe not the dad) but the mother knows that Casey has been lying through her teeth. So, sorry, no pity there either.

When I see the clip of little Caylee singing, "You are my sunshine," I can't help but cry. What a precious, beautiful little spirit. She deserved so much better. This is a very, very, sad situation.

So, no pity for Casey or the grandparents from me.

Chels,

I feel the same way. Casey does remind me of Scott Peterson. I can't imagine a parent could do such a thing. Not only that, but Cindy not seeing the child for a month? That should have raised some red flags.

[Material removed by Tony.]

It is heart-breaking.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Barefoot

Tucson, I agree 100% with your assessment of the situation. The parents have protected their sociopathic daughter all her life and are still trying to do so. Casey has wasted hundreds of thousands of tax dollars by lying to the police and FBI. These are enabling parents in denial .. still choosing to believe that this precious daughter (who has even stolen from her grandmother) is incapable of murder. This is an unbelievably disfunctional and delusional family. Poor little Caylee, that sweet innocent child, may God rest her soul.

Amen.

[chelsea24]

awwww, I'm just heartsick. I just heard on the news that they identified Caylee. I'm sure we all knew it was her, but just hearing it confirmed made my cry.

...even though I was 99.9 % sure that these remains were Caylee's. I am about that sure that Casey killed her daughter too but it should be interesting to see if they get a jury in this area of Florida that will not already have made up their minds one way or the other about Casey's guilt.

Casey's actions and demeanor during this whole child disappearance and search really threaten any story her attorneys might be able to come up with.

The meter reader seemed to do a better job at looking for Caylee than the Orange County Sheriff did.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by chelsea24

awwww, I'm just heartsick. I just heard on the news that they identified Caylee. I'm sure we all knew it was her, but just hearing it confirmed made my cry.

I have very mixed feelings about the announcement that they identified poor little Caylee. I am heartbroken that the innocent little angel was murdered at the age of 2 1/2. But I think the ID of Caylee will mean a stronger case against the Casey, her mother.

It seems the grandparents are still believing Casey ... that Zanny the Nanny kidnapped Caylee, murdered her, and brought her back to a wooded area 15 houses away from their door. Talk about being in denial.

[SteveZ]

Now to be very cynical....

"We" have raised an entire generation with the belief that if a child is going to be a burden, abort it so all of the burdens and problems go away. It's not a giant leap for that belief to be extended by the current (and upcoming) generations - especially the narcissic and impatient - to "born" children when they become a burden as time goes by. The question this generation (and upcoming) will have to resolve is how can one keep from getting prosecuted for something they believe is their right - freeing themselves from parental responsibility via a violent act. It's happened once already, therefore the precedent exists.

Now to add to the cynicism....

The grandparents, neighbors and others knew the child was in harms way. However, who wants to "get involved" when the parent is a neighbor who you have to see and deal with, because odds are the complaint and investigation will lead back to who called, and the parent will still be around the neighborhood even if the Department of Children and Families removes the child?

The grandparents in situations like this tend to try to mitigate the harm through extra babysitting, prayer and hope - sometimes even with money. In the end, they don't want the "secret" to become public because of embarrassment. After all, how many grandparents want to answer questions or respond to looks from their friends, neighbors and other relatives because their kid went off the deep end with regards to child abuse.

Had Ms. Anthony aborted her pregnancy, there never would have been a Caylee, and all those photos of the little girl and the impact she made upon others would never have happened, because the "burden" would have been avoided. Ms. Anthony (if she is guilty of homicide) just waited a couple years too long before disposing of her burden.

Defense counsel for Ms. Anthony (if charged with any degree of homicide and the physical evidence conclusive) may even decide to get creative by indicating a defense that includes diminished responsibility based on how she interprets "child disposal" as a public policy. That could impact a plea bargain or mitigate sentencing, depending how it's played. In notorious cases which can cost the state a fortune, anything can happen.

So, is the Anthony story a tragedy? Yes.
Could it have been stopped before the worst happened? No doubt!
Could the circumstances which led to killing been prevented? Probably.
Will such a situation happen again? As long as children can be considered by today's generation (and upcoming) as a burden which can be corrected by disposal, what do you think?

I realize there is a significant pro-"choice" segment who won't see the link, or will come up with all sorts of exceptions, twists or "rights" as to why I'm off base with this. However, that doesn't change the fact that there is a dead child being highly publicized as the ultimate product of child abuse without ever discussing why the abuse occurred and whether the parent (if guilty) believed "if only I had aborted" then I wouldn't be behind bars, but instead be bellying back up to some bar for more fun and games.

Morality, responsibility, conscience - we seem to have politicked these almost to oblivion in the quest for the "free life."

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Now to be very cynical....

"We" have raised an entire generation with the belief that if a child is going to be a burden, abort it so all of the burdens and problems go away. It's not a giant leap for that belief to be extended by the current (and upcoming) generations - especially the narcissic and impatient - to "born" children when they become a burden as time goes by. The question this generation (and upcoming) will have to resolve is how can one keep from getting prosecuted for something they believe is their right - freeing themselves from parental responsibility via a violent act. It's happened once already, therefore the precedent exists.

Now to add to the cynicism....

The grandparents, neighbors and others knew the child was in harms way. However, who wants to "get involved" when the parent is a neighbor who you have to see and deal with, because odds are the complaint and investigation will lead back to who called, and the parent will still be around the neighborhood even if the Department of Children and Families removes the child?

The grandparents in situations like this tend to try to mitigate the harm through extra babysitting, prayer and hope - sometimes even with money. In the end, they don't want the "secret" to become public because of embarrassment. After all, how many grandparents want to answer questions or respond to looks from their friends, neighbors and other relatives because their kid went off the deep end with regards to child abuse.

Had Ms. Anthony aborted her pregnancy, there never would have been a Caylee, and all those photos of the little girl and the impact she made upon others would never have happened, because the "burden" would have been avoided. Ms. Anthony (if she is guilty of homicide) just waited a couple years too long before disposing of her burden.

Defense counsel for Ms. Anthony (if charged with any degree of homicide and the physical evidence conclusive) may even decide to get creative by indicating a defense that includes diminished responsibility based on how she interprets "child disposal" as a public policy. That could impact a plea bargain or mitigate sentencing, depending how it's played. In notorious cases which can cost the state a fortune, anything can happen.

So, is the Anthony story a tragedy? Yes.
Could it have been stopped before the worst happened? No doubt!
Could the circumstances which led to killing been prevented? Probably.
Will such a situation happen again? As long as children can be considered by today's generation (and upcoming) as a burden which can be corrected by disposal, what do you think?

I realize there is a significant pro-"choice" segment who won't see the link, or will come up with all sorts of exceptions, twists or "rights" as to why I'm off base with this. However, that doesn't change the fact that there is a dead child being highly publicized as the ultimate product of child abuse without ever discussing why the abuse occurred and whether the parent (if guilty) believed "if only I had aborted" then I wouldn't be behind bars, but instead be bellying back up to some bar for more fun and games.

Morality, responsibility, conscience - we seem to have politicked these almost to oblivion in the quest for the "free life."

Steve,

As much as I usually agree with you and I truly respect your very sincere values, I don't think I can agree with you completely on this post.

I could NEVER have an abortion, but sometimes they do have a need. I have never marched or contributed, but as a Catholic, I still can see that sometimes it is a choice.

I don't believe that we are seeing young people raised in a way to consider their offsprings disposable. I think that maternal and paternal instinct is in place the way it always was. I think that people are not as clear as to how to go about it. I think that some get convinced that a Lexus is a better trip to the grocery than a Ford and gives their children a few points among their peers. The recent financial unpleasantness is gonna fix that problem, sad as it is for us older ones.

I think the Anthonys are screwed up morally lax people, but I don't think there were signs of overt physical child abuse, so that neighbors could report it. I think the grandparents really loved that child, who wouldn't, except the mother perhaps. The blame rests primarily on Casey Anthony who was old enough to know better, and apparently has sociapathic tendencies. No excuse. The parents covered for her and I am sure they did all of her life. I am sure that she got herself in trouble in lots of ways and they fished her out.

I just don't think that the issue is abortion. I do agree that the Anthonys will either burn in Hell or live the Hell for the rest of their life of NOT having that child with them and knowing what happened to her. I share that Hell. I can't put her little face out of my mind. It is so sick and so sad and so wrong. I do understand where you are coming from Steve and you may be right. Abortion should never be used for birth control or to solve a selfish problem, but there are terrible things that happen to people that are not to be believed.

I keep typing and like most old fools have lost my train of thought. I need coffee and I think that what you typed is your usual very considered belief and I recognize and support the intelligence behind your usual goodness.

How sad that we have to discuss this horrible act at this wonderful time of the year.