[onslowe]

Hoping that people would keep their views about religion to themselves is a tacit way of saying religion should not be spoken of in this forum. Why? People all over this board express their views on all sorts of things. Why imply that people should not speak of religion? I myself believe it's symptomatic of something akin to feeling edgy or maybe even guilty when the topic comes up. That's my belief, and maybe it's not anyone else's and that's okay on this forum.

I look at TOTV like a refrigerator. Open the door, take what you want and leave all the rest. If one sees a thread involving the Bible avoid it if it causes uneasiness to you.

God, to a believer, is not "matter." Chickens are, roosters are, eggs are, and the universe is. God is, was always and before time and worlds and always will be, um, forgive me, Supernatural.

[kittygilchrist]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Raised a German Lutheran and we didn't study the bible so much as we were told in Saturday Catechism class about what the books were about and were expected to memorize the books names in order, old and new testament, as a test before Confirmation. I can get through first and second Deuteronomy and go blank nowadays. We were taught it as a kind of history and we knew what the main characters and the lesser characters did and were taught that the new testament kind of had more weight than the old. Other Protestant faiths study the Bible in a different way memorizing verses and literally applying them.

I was a Catholic convert at age 18 and really was surprised to find back then that the Catholic Church didn't study the Bible, as much as many Protestants I knew did, and Catholics are not taught to interpret the bible literally which agreed what I was taught as a child in Sunday School and in Catechism Class.

I get more Jeopardy questions on the Bible right than my "cradle Catholic" husband. But I am far from a scholar. To me it takes the wisdom of Solomon to figure it out.

I love the way Jews celebrate the Bible. Each synagogue has a scroll with the Torah..first 5 books..that is taken from its elaborate cabinet and paraded around the room on certain days, where congregants reverently touch it with their book, or kiss a scarf and touch the Torah with it.

The Torah has only one Deuteronomy... ;-)

[Tennisnut]

[quote=graciegirl;943673]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

To believe that a supreme made ourselves in his image or gave his only begotten son is, to me, arrogant or, at the least self serving. Also, religions groups have a history of trying to convert others to their religion without respecting the current religion of these people. Look at all missions by the Spanish as well as white shirts on bikes handing out pamphlets. My thoughts.[/QUOTE]

The only people that have evangelized to us in the last thirty years were the Jehovah Witnesses.

Then there are those people who by their lives and their warmth and their kindness draw you to them and make you wonder what is their secret, but they don't SAY anything.

What exactly does the pink high lighted mean? I don't know of any missions by Spanish and white shirts on bikes? Never in all of my 75 years have I seen what you speak of.

Lots of Spanish missions in California, the southwest and Mexico. Also, our Jehovah witnesses ride bikes and wear wear white shirts. They don't do that where you are from?

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

I would say no, we can't. Choosing hasn't been my experience. I didn't choose anything and I have no idea how anyone would go about choosing.

I did choose lots of things in my life so I know how choosing works. But when it comes to faith as it is set forth in the Bible, like a prescription, I don't see it like so many others do.

I don't mind thinking and accepting the idea that there might be some higher power in the universe. But I don't know what it is and I doubt it's going to reward me with eternal life if I'm good.

I believe one can be a good person without believing in God, Allah, Jesus , Mohammed, etc.

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I believe one can be a good person without believing in God, Allah, Jesus , Mohammed, etc.

AMEN! <----- sorry, couldn't resist!

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by onslowe

Maybe I should have written "Mother Theresa's morals are the same as Adolph Hitler's morals." Your words were "Religious freedom and its moral relativism…" You joined together a man made civil right with an odious world view and philosophy which must lead to no morality. Slow down and consider it.

Basically, it's about everyone being free to believe whatever they want to believe, and that, in my opinion, is as it should be. The moral relativism comes in when believers in one religion, like Christianity, behave as though all other religions are beyond reproach. In other words, whatever you choose to believe, within the framework of religion, is fine. Religion is religion, it's all relative, so have respect for all religions even if it's contrary to your religion.

There is a big difference between the Divine mandate that we love (i.e. care about) all others and the modern half baked "feeling" that each religion is as good as the next. To a believer, and indeed anyone who slows down and considers the facts that is simply not true.

Yes, we agree! Not all religions are equal, or "as good as the next."

I note that there is no reply to the statement of Jesus. So be it. I can't persuade anyone, but I can and will pray for you.

Sorry, I don't remember what that statement was. I'll go back and read it.

[tedquick]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I believe one can be a good person without believing in God, Allah, Jesus , Mohammed, etc.

I know a good number of people who are either agnostic or atheists and they are very fine people, so I agree with you in total. Some of them I'd rather be around than some who profess to be Christians. Fortunately I do not have to judge any of these people, except to decide with whom I want to spend my time.

[graciegirl]

Look at it this way. It all depends whose team you're on.
We seem to choose to run in flocks and gather with those we have something in common with.

I hope there is a God.

And if he isn't. He isn't. But if he is?

I hope someone will leave the back door open just a crack.

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by onslowe

I believe Jesus is the Son of God. Like the rest of my knuckle dragging simple ilk, I believe God doesn't lie. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." He didn't say "I am one of the Ways…."

Okay, very good! I have no problem with that, except for the part about "knuckle dragging simple ilk". That's not nice.

[Sophie11]

We all have a choice to believe or not.
The Bible clearly states one must believe in Jesus Christ to get to heaven.
There are a lot of very nice people everywhere I go but will Jesus say that he knew them when they go on?
Remember e=MC2 - energy never dies it only changes - 1 Corinthians 15:51 - 15:52 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

[quirky3]

Originally Posted by tedquick

I know a good number of people who are either agnostic or atheists and they are very fine people, so I agree with you in total. Some of them I'd rather be around than some who profess to be Christians. Fortunately I do not have to judge any of these people, except to decide with whom I want to spend my time.

"Amen" to that!!!

[rubicon]

Essentially this thread was about creation the scientific big bang theory or the Bible's version of creation. It predictably morphed into a great religious debate....and a good one at that. Essentially my occupation was about investigating people, events, etc testing ,probing , comparing......... Logical progressions evolve and when that chain is broken it signals that something is wrong the data does not compute go back look again

The universe is too vast too complex for my little mind and my instincts warn me not to be moved by emotion/feeling because they cannot be trusted.

Holy men will tell you that God created man with free will but then tell you if you do not believe their way you are wrong...but logic tells me that if I have free will whatever I chose to do is best for me. Should I be denied an alleged paradise because I exercised a right He has freely bestowed me????????????I don't know?

Scientist test their hypothesis and because of error, conceit wrongful assumption piece together a story that in a few years falls apart. And those theories which do hold up only accomplish a local validation.

Validation arising from the religious community or the scientific community to posit a theory for the creation of this magnificent thing we call the universe or to the concept of God is based on faith. Creation is a mystery and it will remain a mystery. Perhaps we should signal ET to stop by and give us his explanation

[Villages PL]

Originally Posted by DAWN MARIE

I have sat in the chair of unbelief. It's usually a prerequisite before one comes to belief as we all start out as unbelievers to some extent.

I find that statement interesting. At what age were you, "in the chair of unbelief?" What happened that caused you to believe? Did you have religious training as a child? I just wonder how this transformation takes place because I have never known anyone, friends or family, to change one way or the other.

For those who believe we should be quiet and say nothing I have to strongly disagree. If you have any belief at all in Christ, you know his central message was "go and tell" and was one of the last things he said before he left this earth. Many of the early church went to their death "telling" and were not ashamed to do so. Many are losing their lives today in other parts of the world for doing this same thing. We don't get to heaven on warm fuzzy feelings. It's not about doing good...it's not even about being good. It's about believing in and putting our trust in the one who did the most good for all of us.

To keep quiet and not say anything is akin to seeing a bridge washed out ahead on a dark night and not warning those approaching the danger that lies ahead. If you know an alternate route with a safe bridge that is sturdy with no danger of failing isn't it most loving to speak up and warn those approaching the washed out bridge? The physical is always an example of a spiritual truth. We are all traveling along a road with many obstacles and dangers. Just because it's in the spiritual realm doesn't make it any less dangerous. In fact it's much more dangerous than the physical because it has eternal consequences. So that's why I put my trust in the only one that loves me with a dying love who came to warn us about the danger and point to the bridge that he himself built for us that will never fall apart.

Keeping quiet about the dangers ahead: In your opinion, does that also apply to food and health? There was a recent article (09-13-14) in the Daily Sun lifestyle section. The heading was: "Staying fit for Him". The subheading was: "Church groups focus on better health, overall wellness".

In this article the Rev. Marilyn Anell, director of pastoral care at New Covenant United Methodist Church, said the following: "Our body is a temple for God and it's up to us to keep it healthy by exercising and eating the right food."

My comment: Many people seem to think that lifestyle choices, like what we eat, are to be kept private. Just as with religion, they think food choices etc. should not be talked about. If you suggest a healthy lifestyle they will often say, "I'm tired of people telling me how I should eat."

If our body is a temple for God, how come I don't recall any religious people on the health board promoting a healthier lifestyle? Is it too personal?

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by Villages PL

Keeping quiet about the dangers ahead: In your opinion, does that also apply to food and health? There was a recent article (09-13-14) in the Daily Sun lifestyle section. The heading was: "Staying fit for Him". The subheading was: "Church groups focus on better health, overall wellness".

In this article the Rev. Marilyn Anell, director of pastoral care at New Covenant United Methodist Church, said the following: "Our body is a temple for God and it's up to us to keep it healthy by exercising and eating the right food."

My comment: Many people seem to think that lifestyle choices, like what we eat, are to be kept private. Just as with religion, they think food choices etc. should not be talked about. If you suggest a healthy lifestyle they will often say, "I'm tired of people telling me how I should eat."

If our body is a temple for God, how come I don't recall any religious people on the health board promoting a healthier lifestyle? Is it too personal?

[Gramps666]

Originally Posted by Sophie11

We all have a choice to believe or not.
The Bible clearly states one must believe in Jesus Christ to get to heaven.
There are a lot of very nice people everywhere I go but will Jesus say that he knew them when they go on?
Remember e=MC2 - energy never dies it only changes - 1 Corinthians 15:51 - 15:52 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

So God (Jesus) hides from us and then shows His love by condemning us to eternal misery if we happen to question his existence? Does that sound like LOVE to you? Who here would do that to their own child?

In Matthew 16:28 we are told that some individuals who were living 2000 years ago will still be alive when the Son of man returns. Where is He? Or is someone besides Mel Brooks over 2000 years old?