Casey - Innocent until proven guilty?

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  #361  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:48 AM
rubicon rubicon is offline
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It is my understanding that the state of florida is footing the bill for Casey Anthony's trial..."If you can't afford a lawyer, a lawyer will be appointed to you............Cheney may be pro bono?

I wish Judge Perry was the judge in the Lindsey Lohan debacle...Talk about a defiant disrespectful person.

There will be a very quick verdict in this case. Casey will not get the death penalty but she will not walk from this
  #362  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:54 AM
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The behavior of spectators can influence jurors, and Judge Perry explained in Matthew's contempt hearing that it could theoretically result in a mistrial after huge expendure of time and money to try the case, requiring a retrial; and so Judge Perry, as is within his authority, had courtroom decorum rules posted at the entrance to the courtroom, which all people were required to read, and which Matthew said he had read, ordering them to refrain from any gestures, verbal outbursts, facial expressions, etc. So Matthews was charged with, and convicted of, contempt of court; but he was allowed to ask for an appeal and was given defense by the public attorney's office, since he is of low income, according to his testimony. It was pretty dramatic seeing this young man being handcuffed as he stood before the Judge, and taken into custody by the sheriff.

I think that part of this seemingly strong sentence on the part of the Judge (who knows, maybe he will reduce it, later on) may have also been to make an example, warning other spectators to not even think about making a similar mistake that could damage the case during the final rebuttal evidence, or especially during closing statements, when emotions predictably will be running high.

That's why it's nice that we can watch in our living rooms, making all of the gestures, expressions, and verbal outbursts we care to!
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  #363  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Freeda View Post
That's why it's nice that we can watch in our living rooms, making all of the gestures, expressions, and verbal outbursts we care to!
I have never, ever spoken to or yelled at my poor television as I have for these past three weeks.

I find myself just staring at Casey, waiting for some reaction while the testimony is going on. She is just so darn cold-hearted; of course, until it came to the grief counselor (?-oy vey) talking about her.
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  #364  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:08 PM
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I don't make gesture or emote or yell at my television. I listen, analyze, anticipate draw inferences from questions asked and best determine in my mind the likely outcome of this trial. This is a facinating exercise in a debate of facts and laws and whether the Sate or the defense has the better acumen. At this juncture I believe the jury will act quickly and render a verdict of guilty but not for a capital offense but something less.

The siller side of me is wondering who in Hollywood producers are not casting for the various roles for what they will advertise as an epic trial of the century

So who are your picks for Casey, her parents Judge Perry, etc?

I mean do you think Baez is being paid all that much by the State to defend Casey? I suspect he made a claim for all media rights concerning this case. Will it stand????
  #365  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ceejay View Post
I have never, ever spoken to or yelled at my poor television as I have for these past three weeks.

I find myself just staring at Casey, waiting for some reaction while the testimony is going on. She is just so darn cold-hearted; of course, until it came to the grief counselor (?-oy vey) talking about her.
Either you've been in my house and I didn't see you, or I might be your long-lost twin!!

KC's "fake" crying has reached epic proportions (ok, a couple of times it's been real but inappropriate)--and she's come close to falling asleep many times. if I were on trial for my life, I kinda think I'd be paying attention to every word. Just sayin'...
  #366  
Old 07-01-2011, 12:29 PM
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So who are your picks for Casey, her parents Judge Perry, etc.
Casey = Lindsay Lohan
Judge Perry = Forest Whitaker
Jose Baez = Casting call for "Enormous Ego"
Jeff Ashton = David James Elliot (JAG fan, here)
  #367  
Old 07-01-2011, 02:42 PM
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Of course we all knew that Casey Anthony did the chloroform searches on the computer, and not Cindy. However with her mother lying to protect her, it created reasonable doubt. Now we have testimoney by Cindy's employer to prove that Cindy was lying about being off work and doing the chloroform searches. I see this as a huge plus for the State.
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  #368  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Barefoot View Post
Of course we all knew that Casey Anthony did the chloroform searches on the computer, and not Cindy. However with her mother lying to protect her, it created reasonable doubt. Now we have testimoney by Cindy's employer to prove that Cindy was lying about being off work and doing the chloroform searches. I see this as a huge plus for the State.
Good point, but it could also help the defense to see why Casey has always been such a good liar. She apparently learned her lessons well. She had some great teachers...the whole family. It would be interesting to know where Cindy, especially, learned her penchant for lying. Passed down from generation to generation, perhaps?
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  #369  
Old 07-01-2011, 05:10 PM
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Unhappy Justice

Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4?

As a retired "Good Ole Boy" attorney once said to me .."The law is lousy".

I would call it a mis trial and wait until the State had good proof. I heard
one person at the Defense table say quietly, "It is a travesty of justice"
I could not say it better.
  #370  
Old 07-01-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PennBF View Post
Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4?

As a retired "Good Ole Boy" attorney once said to me .."The law is lousy".

I would call it a mis trial and wait until the State had good proof. I heard
one person at the Defense table say quietly, "It is a travesty of justice"
I could not say it better.
I have to think Penn, that you missed quite a bit of the trial. It is clear to me she is guilty.
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  #371  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
I have to think Penn, that you missed quite a bit of the trial. It is clear to me she is guilty.
They didn't have any trouble convicting Scott Peterson with a LOT LESS circumstantial evidence...
  #372  
Old 07-01-2011, 08:41 PM
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Graciegirl..I was careful not to say she is innocent as I happen to believe she is guilty of something from direct to accident.
The concern is that my belief or opinion is not important. What is important is if the state proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. They never proved or identified method of death, cause of death, where it may have happened, who else if anyone was involved, and many so ons.
Contrary, I actually watched everyday from beginning to end. If I could not watch it at the specific time, I recorded every day on the DVR and watched any part that I may have missed. In fact I recorded 2 channels just in case one shut off part of the testimony.
I believe that the Judge, who is a "State Employee" was the 4th attorney for the state and did not allow the defense to put on a fair case. An example of what I am saying is that he was more interested in (a) a speedy trial and (b) the budget rather then being concerned that a life is at risk and whether you believe in her or not she deserves a fair trial. In addition he continued to
threaten the Defense attorney's which I am sure made them much more cautious in their defense. Even today he said to Beaz something to the effect that he better be sure on a discovery point but he never said anything like this to the state attorneys. Terrible...
If we ignore the rights to a fair trial for one then we are giving up a fundemental right provided in the Constitution and when you give up one freedom you can rest assured more will follow.
I watched Geraldo today on TV and he stated everything I believed in and my points above. He went beyond my position and agreed the judge was unfair to the defense and a few exhibits admitted will most likely support a
mistrial.
  #373  
Old 07-01-2011, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dillywho View Post
Good point, but it could also help the defense to see why Casey has always been such a good liar. She apparently learned her lessons well. She had some great teachers...the whole family. It would be interesting to know where Cindy, especially, learned her penchant for lying. Passed down from generation to generation, perhaps?
Except that how she got to be such a good liar is not relevant to whether she killed her child.

I have intentionally not watched any of the trial, not wanting to be drawn deeply into something so sordid. I've read some in depth news summaries. I doubt she will get the death penalty. Although the chloroform searches are evidence of premeditation, it is possible that Casey meant to silence and not kill her child with chloroform.

From the evidence I have read, I personally do not have any reasonable doubt that Casey killed her poor, sweet little girl. It breaks my heart.

Some posters have mentioned that it only takes one hold-out on the jury. That works both ways. Given the evidence presented, it seems more likely to me that one or more jurors would be unwilling to render her not guilty on all charges than it does that one or more jurors will be unable to find her guilty on at least one charge related to Calyee's death, even if it's just aggravated child abuse based on the chloroform evidence.

Surely she will be found guilty of at least one and probably all four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.

As for a quick verdict, that seems improbably-- although bizarre seems to define this case. Each of seven counts needs to be deliberated. For a quick verdict, there would need to be quick unanimity on all seven, including first-degree murder vs aggravated manslaughter of a child.

Who will play Casey? I'd cast Jody Foster. She plays complex roles. I could see Meryl Streep as the mother. It's sad that this will be a blockbuster film. But as Don Henley sang, "It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry."
  #374  
Old 07-01-2011, 10:31 PM
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There are cases where a body is never found, at all; and so there is no evidence at all of the details of exactly how, when, or where the murder took place; and yet premeditated murder of the missing/never found person is found by a jury (and upheld by the courts), based on strong circumstantial evidence, as exists in this case; and based on the reasonable inferences that can be drawn from it. If the exact details of a murder had to always be proven in order to convict, then a murderer could always get away with it (and unfortunately as we know, sometimes they do), as long as they are good enough at hiding the precise details of the event, and at hiding the body. Think about how scary the world would be if that was the law!

As a sort of analogy, if someone gave another person their valuable gemstone (and there were witnesses, a written signed receipt, etc., to prove that) for safekeeping for the owner; and the person to whom the gem was given to hold it failed, when requested by the owner, to ever return it, and just kept silent and never provided any explanation for its whereabouts, a jury would most certainly be able convict the person for theft, beyond a reasonable doubt; based on the logical inferences from the known material facts. The holder of the gemstone could not just take the position that 'the prosecution must prove that I still have it, and that I didn't lose it, must prove where I have hidden it, and must prove that someone didn't steal it from me; unless they do, I cannot be found guilty of theft for not returning the gemstone'.
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  #375  
Old 07-01-2011, 11:00 PM
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PennBF, I watched it everyday, too. I watched from jury selection on.

Like you, I feel there is enough evidence to convict her on some of the charges, but not any warranting the death penalty. I have from the beginning, if nothing more than for lying. I still have some serious questions, some of which Mr. Mason pointed out in asking for an acquittal to the first 3 charges. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they are allowing the photoshop presentation of the duct tape, decomp progression, along with Casey in the picture (there were plenty of Caylee by herself). To me, that is as inflammatory as it gets.

I have trouble with the chloroform issue as well. If she did these searches in March for this purpose, why wait 3 months to kill her? She did plenty of partying, often taking her along, in those months from March to June. Remember, Cindy was most often the sitter then. They made such a big deal of the chloroform (and still are), yet many of the experts when cornered couldn't determine how much. None (container, etc.) was ever found in the car or house, nor was any evidence that it had been bought, made, or actually used....only theories. If she obtained, made, or used it at another location then she would not have acted alone. Only her car and home were searched. Mmmmmmmmm

Since nothing ever truly goes away on a computer, the chloroform ads relating to dating were never mentioned again, even after the defense posed the question as to the possibility of that being the reason for the searches. It would certainly fit just out of curosity since she was heavy into the "dating" scene. Why else would someone send it to her?

Why were defense witnesses allowed to be cut off and told to stick to yes or no answers, not allowed to question the prosecutors back, or make comments, yet George never gave a straight answer and was continually allowed to narrate on and on, throwing barbs and questions along the way when being questioned by the defense?

I heard (didn't see it) that George made a gesture of wiping his hands toward Casey the last time he left the stand. Why was he not tossed? When the ruling was made that they would be allowed to be present for all testimony, Judge Perry told them that they would be subject to the same order as to facial expressions, gestures, etc. as anyone else. From the looks of George and Cindy in court today when the camera focused on them, Cindy apparently believed the mistress from yesterday. She could barely sit next to him and they kept their backs to each other. Even some in the media noticed their demeanor and commented on how they were "different" today.

I found the mistress's testimony credible. Why would she lie now? Unless she's as good or better liar than Casey, her explanation of her two names coming from her childhood made sense. As for her being in another relationship at the time she was seeing George, he was too. Same difference. She said that George was at her place about 12 times, not the once or twice he claimed. She even managed to tell them that they could check the records at the complex where she lives to be sure how many times since it is a truly gated community before the judge sustained the objection about narrating. To give credit where due, Judge Perry did allow her to read the part of her deposition related to her testimony and not just the part Ashton wanted her to read that was not the same in his effort to discredit her.

Those are just for starters. I still question Dr. G's ruling since the skull was definitely moved and not buried in the mud. She testified she ruled homicide based on just the opposite. Kronk testified that he moved it and said picked it up on some of the initial statements to the police. He was asked specifically if it was buried and he said that it was just laying there on top of the ground. Hopefully, the defense plans to point this out in their closing.

Along the lines of questioning, I have another question. Why are witnesses sworn in to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" if they are not going to be allowed to do so except when it serves the purpose of one side only.

Sorry for the long post. I just get wound up. Now I have a better understanding of why Boomer always chided herself for posting at late hours.
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Last edited by dillywho; 07-01-2011 at 11:45 PM.
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