[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Wouldn't this be great! No wars. No IRA bombs! No Vietnam! No Korea! People crossing countries like states and living as one! Unfortunately this will not happen in our lifetime.

You won't find many bigger John Lennon fans than me, but the man was a naive idiot. he was a genius as far a making music went, but he was almost a nob-functional human being and was clueless when it came to politics.

I have to sing this song every so often and I'm almost embarrassed every time I have to do it. I don't know if I've ever read any thing so naive and short sighted.

[Cathy H]

these children and young adults are running away from areas in central America that are ruled by drug gangs who live off the drugs that americans (including some villagers) buy in great quantities. those drug gang areas are intolerable. if America would stop the drug habit and also help the Latin American countries with some economic aid to create jobs, the tide could turn. Meanwhile these people are human beings and must be given food and safe shelter until their immigration status can be resolved according to legal procedures set up by Congress

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

You won't find many bigger John Lennon fans than me, but the man was a naive idiot. he was a genius as far a making music went, but he was almost a nob-functional human being and was clueless when it came to politics.

I have to sing this song every so often and I'm almost embarrassed every time I have to do it. I don't know if I've ever read any thing so naive and short sighted.

Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I think you mean proposed amnesty that is still being debated. Probably will not be resolved for another year or more. There was one large scale amnesty in 1986 that gave about 2.8 million illegal immigrants the opportunity to change their status through the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA).

NO I MEAN AMNESTY GRANTED BY OUR PRESIDENT IN 2012 !

Not blanket amnesty, but amnesty for those of a young age.

From June 15, 2012

[B]"Today, Janet Napolitano, secretary of Homeland Security, announced immunity from deportation for illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and who are younger than 30 – among other criteria. They can apply for a two-year work permit that can be renewed

Lamar Smith: Obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants is against the law - CSMonitor.com

There is much discussion on this in media archives. Many felt it was illegal and timed for the election. I don't know, BUT AMNESTY WAS GRANTED and that amnesty began the flood. That fact is undeniable.

I suppose there is no relationship, but no border rush in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and it really began in August of 2012.

I am not being political but if you are to discuss immigration rush at the border you should discuss it with facts. These people were not promised, but viewed the action as an clear cut message.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Challenger

If only I had the wisdom of Solomon.!!

I believe that we need well though out immigration laws that are enforced while leaving room for merciful judgement. If I were living in a crime ridden hell hole with my children suffering from poverty and/or gang activity, I would try to enter America by any method short of violence. The US would have a right to enforce it's reasonable laws to stop me from entering.
We do have laws allowing for refugee status and I would support review of at least the juvinile cases and accept those who met the refugee criteria.

Overpopulation in the US, according to demographers does not present a problem whereas the reduced birth rate does.We will not have enough young workers to support medicare and ss in the coming decades. It does not seem that the "too many people" argument works.

Glib, pat answers will not help . Reasoned legislation, enforcement and a bit of tolerance and mercy will. JMveryHO.

No, I do not think that the thoughts in the Lazarus poem have been revoked- just tested.

Actually, I think that if you look at our immigration laws that are currently in place, you'll find that they are pretty much what you suggest. I think that the problem is that for various reasons, they are not being enforced.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by buggyone View Post
It seems as though my comment was not appreciated by at least one poster. I have taken it down.

As to a solution for what to be done on our border to the South - How to turn the influx back to Central America? It could be just to refuse them entry and turn them around with a brief amount of force? Would that look good or would it work? No.

A high wall from Texas to California with barbed wire on top? Would that look good or would it work? No.

Education funds and humanitarian funds to Central America so they would be somewhat better off? Might work.

Take in families and children under a certain age. Good idea.

You're answering your own questions, but i think that you have the answers wrong. Maybe these measures might not look good to some, but they'd look very good to others. And I personally believe that they would work.

No one thing or any system will be completely foolproof. Even with the measure that you point out in place some would still sneak in. But, these two simple measure would reduce the problem to a manageable level.

But then you suggest that we send money to corrupt governments as though you believe that that money would reach the the people who need it. Beside the fact that we are broke and in debt up to our ears, I can't imagine that sending money to any of these countries would help anything.

Take in children under a certain age? Yes, I could agree with that.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

I agree with the point about Lennon's naïve idealism but I disagree that we have that much difficulty getting along with people of various races and religions. Nothing is perfect but the US beats most other countries in that regard from what I've seen.

instead of dreaming for hope and change, I dream instead for an outbreak of contagious common sense ... which seems to be in very short supply right now.

[TexaninVA]

Originally Posted by Rags123

NO I MEAN AMNESTY GRANTED BY OUR PRESIDENT IN 2012 !

Not blanket amnesty, but amnesty for those of a young age.

From June 15, 2012

[B]"Today, Janet Napolitano, secretary of Homeland Security, announced immunity from deportation for illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States before they turned 16 and who are younger than 30 – among other criteria. They can apply for a two-year work permit that can be renewed

Lamar Smith: Obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants is against the law - CSMonitor.com

There is much discussion on this in media archives. Many felt it was illegal and timed for the election. I don't know, BUT AMNESTY WAS GRANTED and that amnesty began the flood. That fact is undeniable.

I suppose there is no relationship, but no border rush in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and it really began in August of 2012.

I am not being political but if you are to discuss immigration rush at the border you should discuss it with facts. These people were not promised, but viewed the action as an clear cut message.

Rags is correct in identifying the source of the current catastrophe on the border. It's pretty obvious actually.

[njbchbum]

Cathy - yikes! Do you really think that this country does not send economic aid money to Central America?

Here's a little info re the money the US sends to Central America:
How much money does the U.S. give to Central America (general region)?

And look at what happens to the money when it gets there:
Latin America and the Caribbean | U.S. Agency for International Development

And wait until you see how much more money they are going to ask for when they meet with the President this Friday:
Honduras wants 'mini-Marshall plan' for U.S. aid on migrants | Reuters

Now re your comment "if America would stop the drug habit and also help the Latin American countries with some economic aid to create jobs, the tide could turn." That was Rev Al's talking point all day long last Friday. Do you really think that the US is the only country where residents have a drug habit?

Cathy, if the families of these unaccompanied children could spend the thousands of dollars to the smugglers to bring the children across our border - why could they not spend it to improve their lives where they live? And if your referral to 'legal procedures set up by Congress' is a reference to the William Wilburforce legislation - remember the purpose of that act was to protect the children who are victims of human trafficking and not victims of poverty.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

Like he said, he was a dreamer. Unfortunately, we have trouble getting along with people of similar race, religion and politics in this country let alone people of different backgrounds in other countries. Fortunately one can still dream and hope for change.

Or instead of sitting around dream and hoping, we can take actions to improve the world.

People in different parts of the world sometimes have trouble getting along with each other. Sometimes bad people get themselves into power positions in some countries. Does anyone actually believe that by eliminating borders and countries that these bad people would suddenly stop trying to take over? Who would there be to counteract evil in the world?

We have people who believe that it is their job to convince everyone else that they must believe in their idea of God. Do you think that there is any chance of that ever stopping?

Imagine no possessions? Yea, of course everyone would just get along and starve rather than claiming to own something. Anyone who wants can just come and live in your house because it's not your house.

Does anyone ever read these words and realize how absurd they are?

Like I said, take John away from music and he's basically a moron.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by TexaninVA

I agree with the point about Lennon's naïve idealism but I disagree that we have that much difficulty getting along with people of various races and religions. Nothing is perfect but the US beats most other countries in that regard from what I've seen.

instead of dreaming for hope and change, I dream instead for an outbreak of contagious common sense ... which seems to be in very short supply right now.

I think we could use some improvement in the US as well. There are 58 hate groups in Florida according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Examples are the Aryan Nation and the New Black Panther Party. I wonder how those two would get along? I think a little higher goal setting and improvement would be appropriate for the US.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I think we could use some improvement in the US as well. There are 58 hate groups in Florida according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Examples are the Aryan Nation and the New Black Panther Party. I wonder how those two would get along? I think a little higher goal setting and improvement would be appropriate for the US.

Could you explain your posts on this thread in one sentence? Somehow I am not understanding.

[Patty55]

Really? There are 58 groups? Can we make it 59? I don't like loud, crude and common people who seem to be unable to mind their own business.

[eweissenbach]

I wish I....no, I wish the people in power, had the answers. If they could honestly work together on a humane, common sense way to address this deplorable situation instead of using it as a political wedge we might finally get it (mostly) solved. Of course that goes for almost every issue confronting us today, and I see no end in sight.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

I wish I....no, I wish the people in power, had the answers. If they could honestly work together on a humane, common sense way to address this deplorable situation instead of using it as a political wedge we might finally get it (mostly) solved. Of course that goes for almost every issue confronting us today, and I see no end in sight.

Good start...


1. Enforce EXISTING LAWS !!!

2. Rescind the amenisty of 2012

Hard to talk until that gets done, in my humble opinion

Editing to add only because it is very important....besides the two above...

3. Edit the misused law of 2008 which was passed for humanatarian reasons in some way to get rid of the built in incentive.