[tcxr750]

My wife had surgeries over the past several years that totaled over $30,000. Medicare paid and supplemental health insurance paid. The final billing to us was quite small. What we have paid by government deductions from our paychecks over the years would not cover the cost of these procedures. I would imagine that if there were no medicare and only private health insurance, the so called "free market" would determine the cost of medical procedures based on what insurance companies would be willing to pay. The option for people who couldn't afford the premiums would be to book a flight to a third world country for the procedures.
When the cost of call center personnel in the USA went over $13.00 per hour the jobs were shipped to India and the Phillipines. In the age of a Global Economy you just need to seek the providers who give the best return on hard earned dollars after the currency conversion.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

You do realize that since 1965 you have been paying into Medicare as part of your FICA taxes? Don't you think that you should get your money back?

If the government had invested all of the money that they have taxed out of us for SS and Medicare into the right places and not stolen it for other programs, these programs would be solvent for ages.

Z

I have been paying for years on home owners insurance and auto insurance and haven't got a nickle back! Does anyone know how I get some return on that investment! I know I paid a lot more money than that measly 2% they use to pay for SS back in the 1930s and 40s. I bet a lot people got a great return on investment from those years!

[blueash]

Originally Posted by zcaveman

You do realize that since 1965 you have been paying into Medicare as part of your FICA taxes? Don't you think that you should get your money back?

If the government had invested all of the money that they have taxed out of us for SS and Medicare into the right places and not stolen it for other programs, these programs would be solvent for ages.

Z

This is a recurring comment the essence of which is "I'm only getting back my own money" and it is wrong. If you want data rather than diatribe here is a good starting point

Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get | PolitiFact

Seniors Don't Pay Full Medicare, Social Security Share - US News

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/412...a-Lifetime.pdf

Social Security and Medicare: Do you get back what you pay in? - CSMonitor.com

And these analyses don't even include the cost of disability insurance you received all your working years nor the insurance provided for your family via social security disability. 20% of SS recipients are disabled and receiving benefits not because of their age.

[Bavarian]

Originally Posted by CFrance

[/B]
The same thing we do when we're living in Europe and need a doctor--either take out medical insurance or pay cash. And believe you me, the cost for the same medical care in France and Spain, where I've had experience, is a helluva lot cheaper than it is in the US.

And I would like to see some facts to back up your statement about Canadians flocking to the US for medical care. Because according to this site, that is the #1 myth about Canadian healthcare. Canada vs. US Health Care Systems - Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths - AARP

I will quote part: 99.39% of Canadians do not come to the US for medical care.

First, I do not believe anything AARP says, they were started by Colonial Penn Insurance ways back to sell health insurance. They do not support my values and were not interested in fixing WPO and WEP that limits SS to spouses of retired Feds.
I see facts on the ground.

When my mother was sick, she always had to leave the Hospital still not being able to breathe well because of Medicare. Then she had to be readmitted. I was not allowed to use by late Father's insurance to cover the two days. She may have lived much longer. Keep Government out of control of Healthcare.

[CFrance]

Your facts on the ground need to be substantiated. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count. And your opinion of AARP does not render AARP wrong! That's just your opinion.

Why would AARP lie about how many Canadians come to the US for health care?

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I have been paying for years on home owners insurance and auto insurance and haven't got a nickle back! Does anyone know how I get some return on that investment! I know I paid a lot more money than that measly 2% they use to pay for SS back in the 1930s and 40s. I bet a lot people got a great return on investment from those years!

Tennisnut: You did get a return it was the value of the insurance coverage you paid for that gave you peace of mind and allowed you to leverage your income because you understood that loss of home or being sued you were protected.
Frankly consideration yourself fortunate that you did not need to use your auto or homeowners.

I keep reading were people brag that they got more out of medicare then they paid in. Well nothing is free and if the premium pys can't support the benefits going out something has to give. Add fraud and abuse to the legitimate catastrophic health care losses and you can see insolvency in the future....nothing is free

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Tennisnut: You did get a return it was the value of the insurance coverage you paid for that gave you peace of mind and allowed you to leverage your income because you understood that loss of home or being sued you were protected.
Frankly consideration yourself fortunate that you did not need to use your auto or homeowners.

I keep reading were people brag that they got more out of medicare then they paid in. Well nothing is free and if the premium pys can't support the benefits going out something has to give. Add fraud and abuse to the legitimate catastrophic health care losses and you can see insolvency in the future....nothing is free

Actually, I was being kinda facetious and stating that Medicare, social security is lot like auto and health insurance in that it provides peace of mind for the elderly that was not available prior to their implementation. As we are all aware, unfortunately there is fraud and abuse in auto/health/medicare/social security and basically every kinda of monetary transaction known to man. My contributions to my insurance companies have helped to allow them to remain solvent and the hard choices will be made to allow the social security and medicare to also remain solvent.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Tennisnut

I have been paying for years on home owners insurance and auto insurance and haven't got a nickle back! Does anyone know how I get some return on that investment! I know I paid a lot more money than that measly 2% they use to pay for SS back in the 1930s and 40s. I bet a lot people got a great return on investment from those years!

I think that you may have a misconception about what insurance actually it. Insurance is basically a wager. You put up money to bet the insurance company that your home will burn down or that you'll have an auto accident or whatever the terms of the insurance state. If none of these things happen, you lose the bet. The insurance company gets to keep your money. If you total your car, you win. The insurance company has to pay you.

At no time should insurance be considered an investment that you'll se a return on.

Unfortunately, what we now refer to as health insurance ceased being health insurance decades ago. What we now have is basically pooled health care coverage. We buy this so called health insurance and we expect it to pay for every medical expense that we have. I'm not defending health insurance companies, but I can't possibly see how they can make a profit from me. I have several prescription medication that they pay for and knew they were going to pay for when I signed the agreement. They know that I have several medical conditions that are going to need ongoing care from specialists. How am I risking anything? I'm just paying small amount to get my huge medical expenses paid.

[KayakerNC]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I think that you may have a misconception about what insurance actually it. Insurance is basically a wager. You put up money to bet the insurance company that your home will burn down or that you'll have an auto accident or whatever the terms of the insurance state. If none of these things happen, you lose the bet. The insurance company gets to keep your money. If you total your car, you win. The insurance company has to pay you.

Insurance is definitely not an investment and I'm not comfortable with calling it a wager.
What it is, in truth, is a transfer of risk.
I sleep better at night knowing that I've protected myself and my family from occurances that could cause financial disaster.

[Tennisnut]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I think that you may have a misconception about what insurance actually it. Insurance is basically a wager. You put up money to bet the insurance company that your home will burn down or that you'll have an auto accident or whatever the terms of the insurance state. If none of these things happen, you lose the bet. The insurance company gets to keep your money. If you total your car, you win. The insurance company has to pay you.

At no time should insurance be considered an investment that you'll se a return on.

Unfortunately, what we now refer to as health insurance ceased being health insurance decades ago. What we now have is basically pooled health care coverage. We buy this so called health insurance and we expect it to pay for every medical expense that we have. I'm not defending health insurance companies, but I can't possibly see how they can make a profit from me. I have several prescription medication that they pay for and knew they were going to pay for when I signed the agreement. They know that I have several medical conditions that are going to need ongoing care from specialists. How am I risking anything? I'm just paying small amount to get my huge medical expenses paid.

Boogie, you probably did not see my later post. My earlier post was in response to someone who felt he would not get all his money back from medicare/SS. Actually, I would not worry about the insurance companies profit margins. They are doing quite well as any health care ETF would demonstrate the past few years. (Vanguard VHT up over 20% per year over the last 5 years)