[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by jane032657

It just stymies me why so many people are so uptight about the lives of others. Let and let live, love thy neighbor as thyself, embrace life; love and be joyful. Stop putting your nose in other people's business that causes no harm. Look in the mirror and what do you see? That is the real question. If you are worried about going to hell, I really think you are livng in it with all your condemnation and judgement. Those that are accepting and peaceful and loving and open will certainly have their souls floating in a cloud which is cushioned for their after life journey. Those who are full of hatred and judgement should hope that the cloud floaters find mercy and bring you under their wing because the are open and forgiving, just as they were accepting and non judgemental while on earth. There is hope for those who speak so sharply,critically and as if they know what G-d, whoever that is for each of us, is thinking about allowing all men and women to love and cherish those who capture their hearts and live a life of commitment together. I do not think anyone can profess to know what a higher spirit thinks. It is better to focus on being a good person yourself and then you do not have to worry about everyone else. Just look within and reflect the goodness that religon preaches in all that you do. You can't go wrong that way, I just am sure of that.

Bravo, Jane!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by jane032657

It just stymies me why so many people are so uptight about the lives of others. Let and let live, love thy neighbor as thyself, embrace life; love and be joyful. Stop putting your nose in other people's business that causes no harm. Look in the mirror and what do you see? That is the real question. If you are worried about going to hell, I really think you are livng in it with all your condemnation and judgement. Those that are accepting and peaceful and loving and open will certainly have their souls floating in a cloud which is cushioned for their after life journey. Those who are full of hatred and judgement should hope that the cloud floaters find mercy and bring you under their wing because the are open and forgiving, just as they were accepting and non judgemental while on earth. There is hope for those who speak so sharply,critically and as if they know what G-d, whoever that is for each of us, is thinking about allowing all men and women to love and cherish those who capture their hearts and live a life of commitment together. I do not think anyone can profess to know what a higher spirit thinks. It is better to focus on being a good person yourself and then you do not have to worry about everyone else. Just look within and reflect the goodness that religon preaches in all that you do. You can't go wrong that way, I just am sure of that.

I think...that if we need to be accepting and non judgmental, it should be of all people.
We cannot judge others and be critical of them because their beliefs and values are much more conservative than ours if we are liberal and we cannot judge others and be critical of them because their beliefs and values are more liberal if we are conservative. People generally are the way they are because of what they ascertain to be the right way and as you say no one can profess to know what a higher spirit thinks.

It does not change a persons heart or attitude to be judgmental telling people they are judgmental. It is kinda putting our noses in other peoples business judging them for values different than our own. It is a two way street. Acceptance of differences not only mean the ones you value, but the ones they value.

Most people mean well, they are doing the best they can, peddling as fast as they can, using the sometimes unequal amount of intelligence they have and sometimes superior to others patience and sensitivity to all the folks they know. Sometimes we all miss the mark with our acceptance and patience and forgiveness and overlooking of differences. Not everyone is born with the same ability to be logical, fair and perceptive. We aren't all born with the same abilities to conceptualize and to feel empathy.

We aren't our brothers keeper, but the world would probably be a lot better if we tried a little harder to understand the stubborn, opinionated SOB and try to love him a little.

People need love most when they act the most unlovable.

At least I think so.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by billethkid

one thing...... what ever one chooses to believe or sanction or support or not.......is that it still takes a man and a woman to make a baby......

So what ever the man made new laws/freedoms/allownaces/etc change that is one they cannot!

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

they can not be "equal" in all respects of marriage...they cannot concieve and bear children to name one.

btk

The U.S. Supreme Court decision was about marriage, not about child bearing. Why this obsession about bearing children? It has nothing to do with what the focus of this thread is. Or is it simply an attempt to strengthen "an us (majority) versus them (minority)" mentality? As pointed out by other posters, one does not need to be married to have children, and many married hetero couples do not have children, whether by choice or because of anatomical issues. So what?

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by striveforhealth

Hi all,
As a future TV-er (Spring of 2014) legally married to my female spouse in NH, excited by the decisions, and trying to understand how it will impact us, I am heartened by this respectful discussion of this issue. It's been fascinating to read and we can't wait to get to TV!

Welcome. As you can see, not all villagers are on board, but I feel confident you will find an enjoyable life in this wonderfully place.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by KeepingItReal

And now we have division even within the LGBT community, some wanting to distance themselves from gay pride, that sure didn't take very long?....

Uh oh, it "sure didn't take very long"—for the stereotyping to come out of the closet (no pun intended). Let's see:

• All gays are exhibitionists

• All blondes are dumb

• All Jews are cheap

• All Asians are cunning

• All Moslems are terrorists

• All Californians are flaky

• All Mexicans are illegal

• All Poles are stupid

• All car salesmen are dishonest

• All Germans are Nazis

• All doctors are rich

• (And speaking of "rich") All Villagers are rich!

Of course, no one would admit to this, but let's be honest: This sort of stereotyping is the basis of bigotry and discrimination! Day before yesterday it was black Americans, yesterday it was illegal immigrants (probably still today), today it's gays and lesbians. Who will it be tomorrow? (Although following these U.S. Supreme Court decisions, this may go on for a while....)

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by brightspot01

I think Religion needs to banned here on TOTV just like Politics was. This is a no-win proposition and something that should not be allowed for discussion.

Now, for my opinion regarding gay marriage...que sera sera!

I believe, since the Supreme Court voted on this issue, it is in the win column. This is a serious social issue that impacts on the emotional and financial life of people without regard to their gender, age or political party. I can not see a way to separate religion from the gay marriage debate as so many seem to quote the bible as justification to condemn gay people. My understanding of one form of the religious community (Christianity), is to love and respect ALL, not just the one,s a "religious" person categorizes as acceptable. When our generation dies out, this issue will be looked back on by future generation as a no brainier and met with a non believing shake of the head.

[gomoho]

Several posts have referred to hatred and judgement on this thread, but I haven't seen anything like that. This has been an adult give and take except for those saying "mind our own business" and "live and let live". As Gracie said we are all entitled to our own opinions and this has been, for the most part, an intelligent and insightful give and take of ideas.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by striveforhealth

Hi all,
As a future TV-er (Spring of 2014) legally married to my female spouse in NH, excited by the decisions, and trying to understand how it will impact us, I am heartened by this respectful discussion of this issue. It's been fascinating to read and we can't wait to get to TV!

As it stands right now, the Supreme Court decision will not help you once you move to Florida. Since 2008, Florida's Constitution has banned same-sex marriage. Gov Rick Scott, reacting to the rulings, said: "It impacted the federal law, not state law...As the governor of this state, I'll uphold the law of the land, and that's the law of our state".

So, once you leave NH, you will be back to square one, unless the FL Constitution is changed or somehow congress acts to make this a country wide law.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by janmcn

As it stands right now, the Supreme Court decision will not help you once you move to Florida. Since 2008, Florida's Constitution has banned same-sex marriage. Gov Rick Scott, reacting to the rulings, said: "It impacted the federal law, not state law...As the governor of this state, I'll uphold the law of the land, and that's the law of our state".

So, once you leave NH, you will be back to square one, unless the FL Constitution is changed or somehow congress acts to make this a country wide law.

It will only be needed to be challenged in federal court once. I think that was already stated. It is now the law of the land.

[ijusluvit]

And as the President said last evening: "If you are married in one state and you move to another, you are still married."

[janmcn]

As Ms Catherine Blackburn states in this column in today's Tampa Bay Times, "If the people of Florida wish to recognize marriage equality, they must vote to amend the Florida Constitution. One day the Supreme Court of the United States may require Florida to recognize same-sex marriages performed legally in another state, but today is not that day. Like it or not, the marriage equality debate continues. Such is the nature of a democracy".


http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/colu...idians/2128916

[Bill Tasker]

As a gay married male, I would like to thank everyone for the intellegent adult conversation that has taken place on this thread. Education is the best defense against ignorance and by sharing our thoughts and feelings on this highly sensitive subject we can only grow and appreciate each other's position. While it's difficult to have these conversations without letting emotion take over, I carry no malice toward anyone who feels that my union is against their religious belief, I only ask that you not use your belief to injur myself or others. I believe as Gracie stated, "it is a two way street, acceptance of differences not only means the ones you value but the ones they value." My spouse and I have vacationed at TV every year for the past 17 years with thoughts of making it a permenant home. Who knows, some day we may be neighbors.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by Bill Tasker

ALL marriages are different. ALL people are unique. No marriage can be exactly the same but they can start off on equal footing and that is what we are talking about. Not whether some produce children and some do not.

Exactly the point.

[capecodbob]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

There is "civil marriage" as in Justice of the Peace and marriage license, and there is religious marriage, as in church, synagogue, mosque, etc.

This is a "civil" arrangement and should not be put upon the religions. And I think it should be termed a "civil union" or "domestic partnership" instead of a "marriage".

Terms (words) convey concepts, and homosexual unions are not the same concept as heterosexual marriages.

Excellent post. I agree with you.

Bob

[Bill Tasker]

Originally Posted by capecodbob

Excellent post. I agree with you.

Bob

Originally Posted by ilovetv

There is "civil marriage" as in Justice of the Peace and marriage license, and there is religious marriage, as in church, synagogue, mosque, etc.

This is a "civil" arrangement and should not be put upon the religions. And I think it should be termed a "civil union" or "domestic partnership" instead of a "marriage".

Terms (words) convey concepts, and homosexual unions are not the same concept as heterosexual marriages.

All marriages are "civil unions" all marriages are domestic partnerships, a contract between two people, a license. Whether performed in city hall, a church, synagogue, mosque, etc. No one has put same sex marriage on any religion. No one has mandated that same sex marriages be performed under any relgious sanction. So there is no basis for your (fear) comment that it shouldn't be put on the religions. Your concept of the meaning of the word marriage is just that, a conceptual idea of what you visualize as marriage. Your concept is exclusive and mine is inclusive.