[Monkei]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Bill - I am curious - if gays and lesbians would be recognized in a civil union that would grant them all the same benefits of heterosexual married people would that work. Or does it have to be called marriage?

Part of being treated equally, would be calling a marriage a "marriage". It would not be equal to call it anything else.

Equality is the key word.

[billethkid]

they can not be "equal" in all respects of marriage...they cannot concieve and bear children to name one.

btk

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by billethkid

they can not be "equal" in all respects of marriage...they cannot concieve and bear children to name one.

btk

Guess I'm not equal, either. I can't conceive. Never could. That's why I adopted my beautiful daughter (as a single parent, no less).

[redwitch]

And, Bill, thank you for sharing your story. Mazel tov! The same thanks and congrats to all of you who are gay or who have gay children, relatives and friends and are proud of them.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Part of being treated equally, would be calling a marriage a "marriage". It would not be equal to call it anything else.

Equality is the key word.

Well if I have a daughter and a step-daughter they are equal, but called something different because the relationship is not the traditionally recognized one. Doesn't make them less equal - just different. This is the part I don't get. If a gay/lesbian marriage could be called a "civil union" they probably would have been granted equal rights in the past. Marriage is a traditional word not only in our county, but world wide meaning between a man and woman. Why does that need to be changed to give them equal rights??? The move to turn something so sacred to the majority of people is what causes the fight - not the idea of partners having equal rights.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Well if I have a daughter and a step-daughter they are equal, but called something different because the relationship is not the traditionally recognized one. Doesn't make them less equal - just different. This is the part I don't get. If a gay/lesbian marriage could be called a "civil union" they probably would have been granted equal rights in the past. Marriage is a traditional word not only in our county, but world wide meaning between a man and woman. Why does that need to be changed to give them equal rights??? The move to turn something so sacred to the majority of people is what causes the fight - not the idea of partners having equal rights.

My feeling also. Since opposite-sex-unions and same-sex-unions ARE different...I can't see any reasonable person of any persuasion arguing that point...why do they have to be called the same thing. A civil union (if that is what it is called) could have the exact same rights as a marriage if that's what the powers-that-be deem appropriate. But why be forced to give two different institutions identical rights? That's the one aspect of this issue I'll never understand.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Part of being treated equally, would be calling a marriage a "marriage". It would not be equal to call it anything else.

Equality is the key word.

Oh wow...do we start calling all human beings "men"? Or do we call all human beings "women"? Obviously gender equality cannot be achieved until we decide on this crucial question.

[Bill Tasker]

Originally Posted by billethkid

they can not be "equal" in all respects of marriage...they cannot concieve and bear children to name one.

btk

billethekid - you seem to be hung up on this bearing children theme and connecting it to marriage. Many children are born without nuptials being performed. So what's your point? Many Gay couples are adopting the very children your unions throw away. There are also many married hetero couples who have no children. I guess they are not equal either.

[angiefox10]

As long as we are getting into what people should properly call it... I would like to add.. Lesbians are gay...you don't have to say lesbians and gays... they are one and the same. But if it makes you feel better... ok.....

As to step daughter and daughter... I called them all my sons and daughters.

Now... my question.... why would ANYONE care what you call it? If they want to call it a marriage... who cares? If you want to call it a "civil union" who cares. Oh... and BTW.... do you realize many of them are married by clergy in a church??? So now... is it a "marriage" or a "civil union"?

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Oh wow...do we start calling all human beings "men"? Or do we call all human beings "women"? Obviously gender equality cannot be achieved until we decide on this crucial question.

I was just answering the question.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Bill Tasker

...Many children are born without nuptials being performed. So what's your point? Many Gay couples are adopting the very children your unions throw away. There are also many married hetero couples who have no children. I guess they are not equal either.

Equal in rights? I have no problem with that. Equal in the details of their relationships? To claim so is simply denying reality.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by angiefox10

As long as we are getting into what people should properly call it... I would like to add.. Lesbians are gay...you don't have to say lesbians and gays... they are one and the same. But if it makes you feel better... ok.....

As to step daughter and daughter... I called them all my sons and daughters.

Now... my question.... why would ANYONE care what you call it? If they want to call it a marriage... who cares? If you want to call it a "civil union" who cares. Oh... and BTW.... do you realize many of them are married by clergy in a church??? So now... is it a "marriage" or a "civil union"?

Actually there must be a difference between gays and lesbians. They call the community LGBT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

My feeling also. Since opposite-sex-unions and same-sex-unions ARE different...I can't see any reasonable person of any persuasion arguing that point...why do they have to be called the same thing. A civil union (if that is what it is called) could have the exact same rights as a marriage if that's what the powers-that-be deem appropriate. But why be forced to give two different institutions identical rights? That's the one aspect of this issue I'll never understand.

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Oh wow...do we start calling all human beings "men"? Or do we call all human beings "women"? Obviously gender equality cannot be achieved until we decide on this crucial question.

I don't agree with your point, Polar Bear, that same-sex unions and opposite-sex unions are different. A couple loves each other. They get married. They establish a household, adopt or bear children, plan for the future, invest, work, retire, etc. What is different?

And what does calling human beings all men or women have to do with anything at all? Gender equality has been fought for for decades. Men and women are supposed to have the same rights. I just don't understand what this has to do with same-sex marriage.

[angiefox10]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Actually there must be a difference between gays and lesbians. They call the community LGBT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT

Yes... I understand this... However... This is because this is how they have been referred... so.... They changed it... However, this was not my point.

[striveforhealth]

Hi all,
As a future TV-er (Spring of 2014) legally married to my female spouse in NH, excited by the decisions, and trying to understand how it will impact us, I am heartened by this respectful discussion of this issue. It's been fascinating to read and we can't wait to get to TV!